YFs vs. SFs: Status Update

YF enjoyed making a point of his own ability to call home runs and other specific plays during last week's Sox/Yanks game thread.  But yesterday, when push came to shove and the Yankees were staring at a huge deficit, he jumped ship, hitting the panic button.  Yours truly, an impartial observer (probably not an accurate description, but let's indulge for a moment), told him to sit tight, that the Rangers' pitching "sucked" (how's that for succinct analysis?!), that despite the fact that the Yankees were down 9-1 their lineup was still impressive, that it was early, that the Yankees were still in it.   Even late in the game, faced with a much smaller deficit and a crumbling Texas squad, YF still couldn't muster the confidence in his team to pull it out and effectively refused to acknowledge my own sooth.  Happily for him (and unhappily for us), they made the full comeback, just as we said they could.

So I find it interesting that some Yankees fans have now been reduced to woe-is-meism, pressing panic buttons cavalierly and wantonly, with neither the historically bombastic confidence we have come to depend on (and make fun of), nor (more relevantly) a simple common sensical attitude towards the offensive depth of their team.  Randy Johnson not pitching well?  Matsui out?  So what? The team is still good, and will remain good, no matter how much some Yankees fans want to whine about their horrible misfortunes.  $200M payrolls allow you to weather such situations - what other team can lose their slugging first baseman and solid left fielder and still stack the top of their lineup with five fantastic hitters?  Meanwhile, us Sox fans, despite a major injury to our prized leadoff man and a sourceable bout of trouble from our ace, have slugged along, as sanguine and as calm as we can be as Sox fans, looking forward to the day when the roster is whole and the team really kicks it in.  I'd quote Bob Dylan ("the times.." and all), but that feels just so 2004.

Comments

[NickYF]

"Meanwhile, us Sox fans, despite a major injury to our prized leadoff man and a sourceable bout of trouble from our ace, have slugged along, as sanguine and as calm as we can be as Sox fans, looking forward to the day when the roster is whole and the team really kicks it in."

Dude, that is hilarious! A couple of weeks ago, in the days of Josh Bard, you actually called a Sox loss before the game began.

The Yanks have lost Sheffield and Matsui. Equating this loss to Coco's is a bit misleading, no?

[SF]

in the days of Josh Bard

Man, those were good times...

[SF]

You mean when I was writing things like this, Nick, on April 29th?

"I have a sense, or at least a solid hope, that much will change when Coco Crisp returns to the lineup (I know, that's what everyone is hoping). For now, what I really want is for the Sox to play solid ball, to stay in games, to grind it out with this weak offense, to win enough to keep things tight in the AL East until the middle of May, to hold on so we can see if that team that electrified us the first week of the season was for real."

That was at my lowest point of the season so far, and even then you can see that there is no panic in there at all.

[NickYF]

I guess there's a difference between a guy who is out for 3-4 months and a guy who was supposed to come back after two weeks. Or do details like that not matter? Say Coco's out for the whole year, does your "calm" pose remain? Add a two week DL stint for Ortiz or Manny to the mix. Do your posts about Terry Francona's mismanagement (clearly, the need to take aim at a manager's miscues is the result of a little anxiety about one's favorite team--that happened in the good ol' days of Bard as well, I believe. I've done it myself. Every fan gets a bit nervous about their team.) become even more frequent?

[tom yf]

A truly obnoxious post.

[SF]

No kidding, Tom. Nick is totally obnoxious, I agree.

[SF]

supposed to come back after two weeks

Other than the first day or two after Crisp got hurt there was little speculation that he would return in two weeks. He had a splint put on and was going to be reevaluated at that point, with another week to two for rehab. Most reports had him out about a month. We're pushing six weeks now, with maybe at least two to three more because of Coco's kidney stones. And we're still not panicking. Add in the fact that Schilling has been not much better than RJ since his 133 pitch effort and we can talk about the teams' situations more closely. Even if Manny goes down for two weeks that's not enough to induce the kind of bridge jumping that spoiled (and myopic) Yankees fans have perpetrated this week.

It's not like the Yankees' lineup has turned into the Pirates, right? Last night I pointed out that the Yankees, even down 9-1, had a chance to come back, that their lineup is still good enough to take advantage of lesser teams like the Rangers. Not that they were going to come back, because last night was quite improbable, but that they could come back. For some reason my affirmation of their abilities is now being attacked as obnoxious. But I was right. I guess that's just too much to acknowledge. I suppose I could just stick to calling a home run here and there and stay in your good graces...

[YF]

This is a midleading and ignorant post. But we must forgive SF; he's had a rough couple of days, and little sleep. Let's be clear: SF was specifically given credit for his "sooth," but so what? The Yanks were lucky to come back from such a massive deficit; and that they happened to have one big offensive game out of the last six should not be interpreted to mean that all is well in Yankeeland, as he suggests. SF smears those who don't share his "common sensical" ideas about Yankee depth, nevermind that this group includes, among others, Rob Neyer, Steve Goldman, and countless other serious writers whose expertise is certainly greater than his own.

[NickYF]

Well, I'm not attacking it as obnoxious. I think it's somewhat at odds with how you reacted during the Sox's early post-Coco struggles. Here's a quote from the April 29 "Skid Row" thread:

"JFC. The Sox SUCK right now. Maybe they just suck in general."

Is this panic, or is there a hint of panic here? Did you lose track of the long-term when you speculated that the team might actually suck "in general"? I'm not blaming you or calling you short-sighted for this reaction. Fans say a lot of things when their team is playing especially crappy during ONE game.

Plus, last night I also kind of predicted a Yanks come-back. I did say that I thought it was more likely that the Yanks would come back than the Orioles would beat the Sox. This was when they were down by 9.

Anyway, regarding the specifics of the Yanks' situation, I'm on record as saying that the way the current Yankee team was designed, injuries could do a lot damage to their chances. I said this after the Sox picked up Choi. Losing Matsui and Sheff is significant because the bench is weak and the way it's used by Torre makes it even weaker.

[SF]

Look, I am not saying that the injuries don't damage the Yankees' chances. Of course they do. But the panicky "trade for Abreu right now" stuff that came out was silly to me. So much for acknowledging the quality of one's opponent. Had I come out and say "the Yanks are f*cked, there's no way they recover from this spate of injuries" I might have gotten raked over the coals for that, possibly from the same people who are crapping on me now for stating what I did.

Don't go playing the victim SF, after your unprovoked rant. Spare us.

[SF]

SF smears those who don't share his "common sensical" ideas about Yankee depth, nevermind that this group includes, among others, Rob Neyer, Steve Goldman, and countless other serious writers whose expertise is certainly greater than his own

What the f*ck does this mean, and where do I mention any of these people, even by extension? Is Neyer even a Yankees fan? How would I know? I am stating my own opinion, based on the reaction of those who post here and nobody else (hence the "some Yankees fans" qualifier, which I am careful to deploy - perhaps I should have qualified further by stating "yankees fans who post at this site"). I guess you find it shocking that a SF can still think that the Yankees are decent enough to hang around the top of the AL East even despite the injuries. I totally hope I am wrong on this, but gosh, you are awfully cavalier with a pointed and quite bullshittish personal smear of me while childishly defending those who need no defense since they were never attacked.

[SF]

as sanguine and as calm as we can be as Sox fans

Well, how obnoxious! I even poke fun at our own foibles as excitable Red Sox fans. What a meanie I am!!!

That's specious. Your post attacks, broadly, those who consider it urgent for the Yanks to make a move, and you then, as Nick has demonstrated, falsely promote yourself as inure to negative thinking about your own team while juxtaposing that false position to Yankee fans's "panic."

Don't go starting fires and then cry when your house catches fire.

[SF]

No, it's not specious. It goes to the heart of things here. You jumped ship on last night's game and I pointed out that you shouldn't at that very moment, not later, not today. I didn't make broad generalizations that could capture Goldman, Neyer, et al, so don't try to make it out like I did - that's basically unfair, and your own misreading of things. I do disagree with those who think the Yankees should make a panic trade for an outfielder, but that's because I think that the Yankees can withstand this spate of injuries with their current offense. The pitching problems are a different issue entirely. But I am not "smearing" them - that's really a completely inappropriate word to use, frankly.

The funny thing is that at the end of it all I am just acknowledging that I fear the Yankees, that I think they are still darn good - but this gets totally lost because people react to that tinge of pomposity (that I put in intentionally), particularly Yankees fans when that pomposity comes from a Red Sox fan. As I said last night, you can dish it out but you can't take it.

[sf rod]

wow. think of beer for a minute.....

[sf rod]

this does seem a bit inane. we can all agree an injury to a starter will have an affect on the team. we can also agree that injuries are a part of a 162 game season. thirdly, we can agree top payroll teams have a better chance of overcoming said injuries.
the fact that this argument exists confirms no one has jumped ship. i do think the thread would look a bit different had the yanks fell short last nite.
i'll have a black and tan....

[NickYF]

A guiness would be good right about now. Damn work!

Guiness all around.