Derek Jeter: Robbed!

Justin Morneau has been named the AL MVP. This YF, for one, is dumbfounded. I'm not sure how Morneau even beats out Joe Mauer, let alone Our Hero. This is one unsatisfying result. Booooooooooo!!!!!!!!

Comments

[Lar]

I would really rather Jeter be beaten by Ortiz (if you're looking for numbers) or Mauer.. what costed Jeter the MVP was the 4th and 6th! What the hey? Jeter might not be 1st or 2nd, but how can you not put him in the top 3? Ah well..

[Yanks in 07!]

This is the usual anti-Yankee vote. Some fool (probably from Boston) had Jeter down for sixth. A farce. Voters and their votes should be transparent. I hope this energizes Jeter to greater heights.

[Brad]

it's a salty piece of sweet, considering the GG that he won. What goes around comes around.

[YFinBeantown]

yes Brad, what goes around comes around. your shortstop, who only played in 2/3 of the games, clearly should have won the rafael palmeiro gold glove.

[DAW]

FOADBYNM

[SF]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH. Our shortstop didn't win MVP. WAAAAAAAAAAAH.

(with apologies to Artie Lange)

;-)

[Brad]

who said Gonzo, YF in Beantown? I clearly would have given it to Cabrerra or Young, but hey, I don't vote.
Why so defensive? I know it sucks to see your player not get an award he probably deserves, but that's the deal sometimes. It's not like every candidate didn't have a valid argument for the award.

[YF]

Brad: I'm not sure I get that attitude. If Ortiz beats Derek, I'm upset but can live with it, and good for Ortiz—he's a great player and a fun player to watch. Jeter doesn't control who votes on the GG. I don't think you need to be a Yankee fan to appreciate what a joy it is to watch Jeter play every day. Justin Morneau was not as valuable as Jeter in 2006. This stinks.

[Brad]

Besides, how often does an MVP get to play on a team that has as many all-star hitters as, well, an all star team?

[crabby]

WAH. And Pedro was robbed in 1999 because of stupid voting. It happens and will always happen. The actual most deserving will never win. Especially when sportswriters are using different criteria to vote. They shouldn't be voting for this stuff anyways.

[SF]

Question:

Who is more valuable to the Twins, Johan Santan or Justin Morneau?

There is only one correct answer to this question, and therefore this year's AL MVP selection is a complete joke.

[mouse]

Joe Mauer was robbed.

[attackgerbil]

Morneau over Ortiz, Jeter, Santana, Mauer Hafner and Dye? Maybe the voters considered that he only made $385k last year and that's where is value comes from.

[Brad]

Jeter doesn't control who votes on the GG...

Does he control who votes on the MVP? It's your opinion that he was more deserving, and therein lies the problem. If you're upset about it, then you know how it feels to everyone else not rooting for the Twinkie.
Jeter plays in a filthy hitting lineup worth more than 200million dollars. The writers out West and the Central will never, ever give him credit because of it. It's nearly as crazy as the DH argument, but those are the breaks. If you want Jeter to win, he'll have to do what Morneau does IN Minnesota because NY's money spent and returns garnished will always be what people think of first.
I've never said he didn't deserve it, because his argument was as good as anyone's, but to deny what I've said as Red Sox bias is not seeing the truth.
He'll have to win a triple crown to win this award, same as Ortiz.

[Paul SF]

Such an odd choice indeed. As someone who roots against the Yankees, I can't say I'm disappointed. As a fan of seeing a deserving candidate win, though, this is disappointing -- and very surprising.

[Seth]

Jeters gets 1 6th place vote. Arod and Damon got one 5th place vote each.

[Hudson]

It must have been Morneau's "intangibles."

;^)

[Brad]

Nice, Hudson.

[Paul SF]

A-Rod did have better power stats than Jeter, and Damon was more key to holding together the injury-plagued lineup in the first half than Jeter, so it's not like those votes are out of left field. Just surprising is all.

[Spidey]

I feel bad for Jeets b/c he really did have a fantastic year, but jeez, give Morneau some props. I mean, the guy went .321BA/.375OBP/34HR/130RBI/97R. Hardly shabby. Mauer is more consistent at the plate and the better defender, certainly, but no power numbers. Morneau was the real center of that lineup. As for Santana, well, there's the whole pitchers have their own award thing, so it's not surprising that he wasn't up there. But Johan himself said that Morneau was the man on the team, so there you go.

[attackgerbil]

I'm not all that disappointed in Jeter not winning. Would have been nice as a fan. Considering how close the voting was, Jeter still got plenty of propers from the writers. It's just hard for me to see how Morneau got 15 first place votes over the other options.

[attackgerbil]

What really kicks my cobbles is that a Canadian won it.

[SF]

Only for reference, in 1999 Pedro Martinez failed to win the MVP after he was left off two ballots. The voters who left him off their ballots claimed they didn't believe pitchers should win MVPs. However, those writers had, in the past, voted for pitchers.

It's important to remember that these awards are subject to the inane whims of the entitled class of journalists known as baseball writers, who tend, more often than not, to be fickle, judgmental, and hypercritical, if only occasionally hypocritical. Nobody should be surprised by the vote today, but that doesn't mean people can't be frustrated. I think you are being a bit unfair, Brad. YFs have a right to be annoyed: Morneau wasn't even the MVP of his own team.

[Paul SF]

One of those two writers was a Newsday reporter -- for those wishing to speculate about how the Boston-New York rivalry plays into these things. I'm curious as to which writers put Jeter as low as sixth, which is still far more defensible than leaving off Pedro for having perhaps the best pitching season of our lifetimes.

[Brad]

Morneau wasn't even the MVP of his own team.

Yeah, neither is Jeter. It's Mariano every year, hands down.

[Spidey]

Interesting re Morneau's value to the Twinkies:

After June 8, Morneau had the best batting average in the Majors (.362). In that stretch, Morneau also had the most hits in baseball (145) and the most RBIs in the AL (92). And it doesn't take much to link the Twins' turnaround to Morneau's emergence, as the club was 25-33 through June 7 before going 71-33 the rest of the season, the best record in the Majors during that span.

[Brad]

also, who said I was being unfair, SF. I said the guy was as good as everyone else on the ballot, and probably should have won. It's not my bias that lost it for him. Am I upset? Nope. But like I said before, he'll have to be the clear favorite to ever win it. He will have to be so far ahead of everyone else that the writer will feel stupid for not voting for him. That's the way it is, and it's that way for Ortiz too.

[Lar]

Huh? Jeter is totally the MVP of the Yanks. Though Mo is always in the discussion, Jeter should be clear, at least this year. But that's probably because this is possibly Jeter's best year, and isn't quite a good Mo year..

[SF]

Brad, I am not upset either. And I think you have made some valid points. But YFs do have a legit beef, that's all.

Hell, once I get over the fact I think the award was ill-given (which takes, uh, 1/2 a second) I am quite enjoying the fact that Yankees fans everywhere just stacked another chip on their shoulder. Hell, I am a Sox fan.

[Brad]

That's why I said a salty sweet. While it may be unfair to them, I'm thinking that this is the best day of the week so far.

[Lar]

After June 8, Morneau had the best batting average in the Majors (.362). In that stretch, Morneau also had the most hits in baseball (145) and the most RBIs in the AL (92). And it doesn't take much to link the Twins' turnaround to Morneau's emergence, as the club was 25-33 through June 7 before going 71-33 the rest of the season, the best record in the Majors during that span.

Correlation isn't casuation, though of course it helps to have those numbers.. but I'm not a fan of cutting up time periods to make someone more favorable..

Having said that, I just read the Daily News article, and apparently Jeter's #1 in the AL in VORP, and pretty up there in the "clutch" stat - BA w/ RISP, and #1 in the AL in "Clutchiness", another sabrmetric number..

[SF]

I think there's an obvious reason why Jeter didn't win it: the BBWA HATE guys who have an official "scent".

Very simply: no perfume and Jeter's the MVP.

[Amsterdam YF]

"Morneau wasn't even the MVP of his own team.

Yeah, neither is Jeter. It's Mariano every year, hands down."

sigh . . . Joe Nathan's ERA+ this year was 283 (Papelbon's was 500, and I didn't even know that was possible). And Nathan's WHIP was .790. So let's elimainate closers. Any one on the Yankees this year a better MVP candidate than Mauer? Santana? Or will you at least concede than Jeter was the SECOND BEST MVP candidate on his team, whereas Morneau was arguably the fourth on his?

[Paul SF]

Has Dave Pinto lost his mind?

"As well as the Yankees have done over the last eleven years, they've picked up very few awards."

Except the 2005 MVP, the 2001 Cy Young, the 1996 ROY, 1996 and 1997 MOY, five Rolaids Relief winners, five Gold Gloves and eight Silver Sluggers.

But otherwise, yeah, not that many.

[YF]

If there's any irony here, from the YF-SF perspective, it's that Papi came out and said a power guy should win the award (meaning he deserved it over Jeter), and now a power guy has won it over Jeter, BUT THE WRONG ONE. Seriously. Jeter was more valuable than Morneau this year. And so was Ortiz. (Not to mention Hafner, Dye....)

On Pedro: pitchers have there award, and should not be eligible for MVP. But the rules are the rules. If voters don't like the way the ballot is designed, they shouldn't vote at all.

[Amsterdam YF]

Well, if you assume Dave Pinto is limiting it to the three major player awards (MVP, CY, ROY), they really haven't won that many. In the World Series years they had plenty of guys with really good, but not great seasons, and they therefore didn't factor into the awards. Where Pinto goes wrong is linking the lack of awards to anti-Yankee bias instead of the makeup of those teams, which is silly.

[Lar]

Does anyone care about the Silver Sluggers? Or Gold Gloves (anymore)? Or even the Aaron award...

The 1996 ROY and MOY are very deserving.. the only one you can really debate is the 2005 MVP..

It just blows that in most of those years, you can easily say that the Yanks split the vote - Bernie, Tino, Jeter etc for the later years.. and then this year, they basically ignored Mauer and Santana for the most part.. grumble.

[Brad]

283 and 500????

What are those numbers?

[Lar]

ERA+ is basically ERA with park-adjusted figures normalized where 100 is average, and 500 is err, damn good.

[Brad]

Any one on the Yankees this year a better MVP candidate than Mauer...

Dude, really? He was filthy this year. I'm not shorting Jeter, but holy cow, this guy was pretty darn good this year. Without him, the Twins go nowhere (not that they did anyhow), but his numbers are in direct parallel to his teams performance for the last five months of the season, where he outperformed everyone.

[sf rod]

the real victim here is freddy sanchez.

[Lar]

Grumble. How does Jeter win the Aaron award but not the MVP? Grumble.

[Amsterdam YF]

"they basically ignored Mauer and Santana for the most part"

I'm not sure that's fair. Mauer and Santana finished 6th and 7th, and under slightly different circumstances, the 1st place vote for Santana could have cost Morneau the award. I just don't understand why he became the default candidate in the first place.

[Paul SF]

Wow. When you're at a 0.92 and the league-average ERA is 4.62, and you pitch in a hitter's park, I guess that's the ERA+ you get. Holy crap, has anyone with at least 65 IP gotten an ERA+ that high (or an ERA that low for that matter)? I'd doubt it.

In 2000, Pedro threw up an amazing 285 ERA+ with a 1.73 ERA with a league average of 4.97.

[Brad]

'gotcha, Lar. Thanks.

[Lar]

Brad, I think he meant "Any one on the _Twins_ this year a better MVP candidate than Mauer", and presumably rhetorically, since his argument wouldn't make much sense otherwise..

[SF]

I am telling you, nobody wants to vote for a guy who smells like black pepper, grapefruit, and sandalwood.

[Brad]

that smell is just another intangible he has that no other player in the world has.

[LocklandSF]

At least you guys are sane, unlike the NYYFans.com psychos that are convinced it's all a conspiracy against the Yankees.

[Manny's Mission]

Yanks win the division with or without Jeter. Twins don't do it without Morneau. That's the bottom line. Buthey, it's all about the team, right Jetes!

[Lar]

Is there any good news coming for the Yanks at all? It's been a rough few weeks..

[Paul SF]

Yeah, good thing Jeter wasn't playing for individual awards. I'm sure he's just as happy at winning the Gold Glove and Hank Aaron awards as he would have been with the MVP.

[Lar]

I think if the Yanks had Santana, they would've won 110 games. Okay, probably not that extreme, but you get the point..

[Brad]

Every time I see the Jeter add for his perfume, I think of Ron Burgandy. Makes me laugh every time.

[Paul SF]

Contains bits of real panther!

[SF]

Now that Jeter doesn't have anything to play for (we all remember the dig at Papi), does he still not give a crap about this snub? Or do people think this has got to sting?

I am of the mind that this PISSES him off, no matter what Jeter might say in public. And does anyone think that A-Rod just exhaled a little? I think the ego dynamic in the Yankees' clubhouse has got to be just unbelievable.

[Brad]

sort of stings the nostrils. It's like gasoline...

[Manny's Mission]

If he didn't have that dumb perfume, he would have won.

[Brad]

I think the ego dynamic in the Yankees' clubhouse has got to be just unbelievable.

The ego thing is out of control in every clubhouse, on every team, on earth.

[LocklandSF]

SF, I don't know and don't care to speculate on what this does to club house chemistry, but I'm with you, I don't care what these players say in public, these things do matter to them and I imagine that matter in a BIG way.

You don't get to this level of professional competition without being TOALLY obsessed with individual accomplishment.

[sf rod]

when i read "derek jeter: robbed", i thought something was stolen from him. glad to hear he still has all his personal possessions, tangible or not. "michael richards: missunderstood".

[Manny's Mission]

TOALLY?

[Brad]

http://i16.ebayimg.com/05/i/07/97/63/c8_1.JPG

who knew? I kinda want one.

[Paul SF]

Is that the same anti-Yankee bias, do you think, that led to the writers voting for SEVEN different Yankees?

[Paul SF]

That's now my desktop at work, Brad.

[airk]

I wasn't paying much attention to Yankees fans' reactions to these things during their late 90s heyday, so I'm wondering if there was similar outrage over not winning any MVPs during that stretch?

The reaction over this has me wondering about how the Yankees fans' mentality has changed over the past decade.

[Brad]

yeah, Paul. It's pretty sweet.

[Lar]

airk - not as far as I remember. Or at least, there was someone more deserving most years. For example, the year Tino hit 44 (or so) HR's, I think Griffey hit 56, hard to argue with that one. Sheff finished second a couple of years back, but eh, didn't surprised anyone..

[Paul SF]

airk, I'm telling you -- Mystique and Aura have died. The mentality more closely resembles the mentality of pre-2004 Boston fans now. It's eerie.

[airk]

yeah, it's kind of freaking me out.

[Amsterdam YF]

If anything, it was a surprise Sheffield finished that high . . .

On the other stuff, I've never believed Jeter when he says he doesn't care about individual awards, but I'm still glad that he says it.

[attackgerbil]

airk, I didn't really feel that any Yankees deserved the MVP in the 1996-2000 run. I thought Jeter would have been a better selection than Ivan Rodriguez in 1999, but I also thought Pedro deserved the award that year. However, writers love Pudge.

[DAW]

"Mystique and Aura have died. The mentality more closely resembles the mentality of pre-2004 Boston fans now. It's eerie."

This is total bullshit, chief. You'll need to wait until about 2090 to level this charge (and hope we don't win a WS in the interum)

"Damon was more key to holding together the injury-plagued lineup in the first half than Jeter"

Care to back this up with anything other than wishful thinking? Maybe a stat or two?

[DAW]

That's interim, not inteRUM. Thinking about 5:00 :)

[attackgerbil]

Pete Abraham posted that the guy who voted Jeter 6th was Joe Cowley, the White Sox beat writer of the Chicago Sun-Times

[Brad]

Good. It should be made public who voted where. On a side note, way to go Joe!!

[Amir]

I'm shocked Morneu win the Mvp over Jeter

Shut you mouth Yankees Haters. and bashers. Jeter's deserved The Mvp this year. He's the Mvp. Jeter's has been consistent all season long with Injuries The Yankees have all season long with Matsui and Sheff. Arod's continue to struggles at the plate and not able to hit in the clutch. Robinson Cano was out two months with Hamstring Injuries . Abreu was july 31 trade deadline acquisition.

Morneau who should win, and he''s not even the Mvp of His team..Voters and writers hateThe Yankees especially Jeter, He deserved to win the Mvp.East Coast Bias, especially The Yankees.. , They spend too much money and all stars in every position.

Jeter's was supposed to win mvp this year because Yankees have more injuries in their lineup than twins does. I guess voters did not vote for Jeter, because they think jeter have more supporting cast and more hitters than Morneau Arod was inconsistent and unable to hit clutch situations all year long. Giambi was hurt with wrist.

[Yankee Fan In Boston]

for all of the finger pointing, i recall witnessing a bit of disappointment when ortiz didn't win last year. it was all i heard around town. in the papers, on tv, on the T...

as for not winning any MVPs during the dynasty years, i always thought that those were more of a team effort (although a case for jeter was relatively easy to make in '99). this year, watching the majority of the games, it sure seemed like jeter was the guy who was holding that team together when things started to fall apart. moreso than mo. (as much as i worship mr. rivera.) if you take pitchers out of it, mo and santana are gone. the mauer still played a HUGE part in the twins' success. he was calling the games, playing great defense by all accounts i have read, and hitting like no catcher since ernie "the schnozz" lombardi. if you can make that much of a case for a second guy on the same team, i feel it hurts your case.

...and the cologne "jokes" ring a bit hollow. that'd be like saying that papi didn't win last year because he was hawking boner pills in the dominican.

[Paul SF]

I'ma ctually surprised we haven't heard more jokes like that, YFiB.

I don't begrudge Yankee fans being upset by this decision. I was upset by Ortiz losing last year. Actually, I'm not sure what finger-pointing you're referring to.

[LocklandSF]

And Amir is here, thus signaling the end of this comment thread.

RIP

[Anima]

Jim Cowley is racist and hates black people and mixed especially Jeter.

If you disagree here is his email

jcowley@suntimes.com

They should revoke his voting rights and send him dead threats. I'm planning to sue this guy for hating on black guy.

[Brad]

hawking boner pills in the dominican...

Really? This happened? If so, it's ten times funnier than the perfume thing. The jokes about the stuff are funny, YFinBeantown. If a guy puts himself in an Avon magazine and doesn't expect other guys to poke fun at him I don't know what to tell you. Don't be upset because we're laughing at a grown man's line of cologne. It's funny, and being Jeter just makes it funnier. You know, like Papi's boner pills.

[LocklandSF]

Papi also has his own bottled water now and if you go to Subway, he gives you a cookie.

[Amir]

2005

David Ortiz Stats - .300 47 homeruns 148 rbi

Arod stats - .321 48 homeruns 130 rbi - Yet plays third base unlike Ortiz who sits dugout with his fat belly.

[SF]

Yeah, but Ortiz' boner pills work.

(YF told me so!)

[Brad]

racist and hates black people?

And you know this because he didn't vote for Jeter? Do you know him? Is this commom knowledge to others not me, because a quick google search doesn't turn up anything. Is he a member of some racist organization out to keep Jeter from winning the MVP? I wonder who else he voted for since he only votes for white people?
That's a huge accusation there, guy.

[Yankee Fan In Boston]

in lieu of "fingerpointing," i'll quote this line from above:

"WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH. Our shortstop didn't win MVP. WAAAAAAAAAAAH."

i was referring to posts of that nature, attempting to portray this disappointment as whining, when last year all i heard were complaints about the DH bias.

[Amir]

Did Jim Cowley Picks Jeter sixth in ballot and Morneau first? What that's tell you? He's racist sob. He rather picks a white guys Morneau than black guy.

[LocklandSF]

Does anyone have the link to Papi's Dominican Brand Viagra ad? It's really funny and I can't find it.

It's full of classic baseball/great sex innuendo metaphors that had me rolling on the ground when I saw it.

[Yankee Fan In Boston]

obviously the cologne ads are ridiculous. i just meant that in this context they seemed out of place.

also, if you go to youtube and put ortiz's name and elevex (seriously) you should be able to check out an ad.

[Brad]

Oh man this day is good.

Amir, go back to the fingerpainting.

YFinBeantown: Your argument is valid, but we're not talking about last year, are we? This is this year, and the results are so much more fun for us. Bringing up the past with Ortiz just makes all of us enjoy this more. We are, after all, Sox fans.

[Brad]

Dude, Jeter's not black, but whatever. Who cares what you think, you're an idiot.

[Nick-YF]

I'm going to chalk this up as another case where I'm right and I happen to disagree with a lot of people who are wrong. Oh well. Jeter was my pick for MVP this year as he was my pick in 1999. But the most overrated player in baseball gets snubbed again.

[Yankee Fan In Boston]

i apologize, brad.

the last thing i want to do is bring sox fans joy.

[Paul SF]

Besides which the post you cite, by SF, concludes with a wink, which makes at least me believe that he wasn't serious.

[Amir]

Ok, Please put you skirt and and makeup on first Brad. Don't forget to put some panties underneath your skirt.

Brad is so much in love and having love affair with Writer Jim Cowley.

[Brad]

hahahahahahaahahahaahah.

Now that's funny. I now officially love making fun of Ortiz and his boner medicine. That's a total sell-out on his part.

[Amir]

Jeter's mom = white and father = black = mixec

get it??

[attackgerbil]

That is a pretty funny commercial. I like the wink and cluck at the end.

[sf rod]

YFiB- the "whaaaaaaa...." thing is from artie on the howard stern show. he's a big yankee fan and is alway's whinning. i don't think it was direrected at YF's.