Yanks-Sox Preseason Gamer!

Hey! The rivals are at it tonight! This year's series kicks off with Glass Carl Pavano throwing against Tim Wakefield. You can watch live on MLB.com, or, if you're like us—cheap—wait until 11 o'clock for the game to start on YES, because that beknighted network is pre-empting the game in order to show the Nets. Like anybody in New York gives a crap about the Nets. GRRRRRRRR! Anyway, feel free to comment here whenever you please.

Comments

[LocklandSF]

(crickets)

[attackgerbil]

ExtraInnings isn't working for me yet, so no YES. So no baseball.

[LocklandSF]

Well, I'm glad a lot of Yankee fans can't see this, at least the first inning.

[Andrew]

I saw the box score. Wakefield either shuts the Yankees down, or does his best Jeff Weaver impression. Guess his knuckle isn't working today.

[Andrew F]

Wakefield gives up four hits and three runs in the first. He manages to strand a lead-off triple in the second.

Pavano gives up two runs in the 2nd with two outs. Single by Mike Lowell, single by Crisp, double by Dougie.

Waks seems to be calming down a bit now. Giambi almost got into that one.

[Andrew]

Damn, those were real close shots by Giambi. Wakefield better get his knuckle working or the Sox will be out of it fast.

I'm so sick of the interviews with Tina Cervasio. Please go away, and never ever come back.

[Brad]

Sorry, Anons were me.

[Brad]

Pavano better put either some movement or some more fast on that fastball.

[Brad]

This guy is giving nothing high.

[Brad]

Pavano has the mojo tonight - balls are being hit hard but right at the outfielders. That's three times they've been smoked right at an outfielder.

[Andrew]

I dunno much about pitching, but it looks like he has a good downward plane on his pitches.

[Brad]

Manny looks like the high-school dropouts hanging on the corner in downtown Hartford with that stupid think on his head.

[Brad]

think = thing. oops.

[john]

Why is Manny wearing a hair net? (Any answers that don't include "Manny being Manny"?)

[Brad]

his changeup looks nice. But easy to see coming. Posada will get him to stop dragging his foot when he throws it. If I see it, everyone in the duggout easily sees it.

[Brad]

That was a nice play by Lugo there. He may get that call in a real game.

[Brad]

Basack (sp) has a cannon.

[Triskaidekaphobia]

Brad, please tell me he is not dragging his back foot on his changeup?? I just said to one of the other coaches today, we only teach that type of changeup to the kids who are not real bright and can't learn the correct way. I am tivo'ing the game, can't wait to see that now!

[Brad]

Yeah, Trisk. He drags his foot on nearly every pitch, but that changeup is very evident. Maybe he's just working on it, or maybe his hamstring is bothering him, but he's definitely dragging it. Not real bright? ha. It was clear that the Sox knew what was going on because they were definitely on it, just unable to put it where the gloves weren't.

[Brad]

Drew with the dinger. Nice. Dead straightaway.

[Brad]

One of the things I don't like about Remy is his complete disregard for how great his job is. All he does is complain about the length of the games, and how many games, and the car rides, how fast he leaves and late he shows up, and everything else under the sun. He's a great color guy, but really, he needs to realize that he has one of the best jobs on the planet and shut up about how bad it is. There are guys that would kill to have that gig.

[Brad]

It's Colter Bean time!

[Brad]

2003 Red Sox ST invitee, Colter Bean!

[DAW]

god, i hate listening to homer castiglione

[Brad]

Turn it off then?

[DAW]

no choice. will take my lumps to hear the game, but he sucks

[DAW]

xm

[sf rod]

manny's turban is sweet.

that's all i have at this time.

[Brad]

no, he doesn't. He's a homer the same as John Sterling. He "sucks" to you, because no matter how he called the game, you'd still see his homerism, and he's a Sox guy. Let's not confuse your hatred of his position with his ability to call a game and paint a good picture of it for us. He's damn good at what he does.

[Brad]

When will they ever learn? You CAN'T pitch to him...just walk him

[Brad]

he get's guys home. period.

[DAW]

he sucks

[Brad]

this guy is out of control. Maybe blue should brush off the plate so he can see it.

[SF]

Is homerism in general a problem, or just Sox-style homerism, Andrews? Serious question.

I wonder only because the Yankees' crews (radio and telly) are far worse than Castiglione, who always struck me as competent at best, but not particularly personality-filled or worth writing home about, descriptively speaking. As a Sox fan, I never thought his homerism was a problem, and I hate homers (even Sox homers). Sean McDonough, before he went more national, did games on Channel 38 in Boston, and he was always teetering on the edge of having John Harrington (or whoever was managing at the time) come into the booth and sucker him, such was, for a local announcer, his honesty with the team - I love this in an announcer. Joe C. never struck me as too far gone the other way, and I am sensitive to this tendency.

Now Hawk Harrelson and John Sterling, those are two world class homers. Castig can't touch them.

[DAW]

so frickin provencial

[Brad]

again, turn it off or deal with it. and no, he doesn't. It's not like listening to Suzyn Waldman or anything. That's like having cancer develop in my ears, which would probably be more comforting than listening to those two retards talk baseball.

[Brad]

That was painful for him. Where did he come from? Was he one of those top prospects that Detroit gave up?

[Brad]

Hawk is a cool name.

[DAW]

"now Hawk Harrelson and John Sterling, those are two world class homers. Castig can't touch them"

this is obviously a matter of perception - while i think sterling is somewhat incompetent, i find catiglione disgustingly biased. Sterling does actually get disgusted when the team is playing bad, even though i'm not a fan of his. And I think we all agree Michael Kay is the lowest...

[sf rod]

somewhere trupiano is having fun with manny's turban. wish i could hear it.

[Brad]

Michael Kay is the lowest...

There are some really fun ways to end that sentence.

[DAW]

" That's like having cancer develop in my ears, which would probably be more comforting than listening to those two retards talk baseball."

Cas and his partner aren't exactly einstein and oppenheimer, chief. Give me a break. this mf sucks.

[Brad]

Things sloppy for the southpaw here.

[Brad]

okay, you win. He sucks. In fact, he sucks so bad, I would suggest you just turn it off and not subject yourself to his suckiness. I mean, anyone who's as loved as he is my an entire fan base (less SF, I guess) has to be the suckiest of sucking suckers. How can I say he sucks any more? If I were you, I would do myself a favor and just turn the little knob to another station.

[SF]

Sterling does actually get disgusted when the team is playing bad, even though i'm not a fan of his.

Ha, really? I've been (struggling to) listen to this guy for years now and he's nothing short of apologetic when the Yankees play terribly. He calls an atrocious game, and he comes off as pompous and unserious all at the same time.

Castiglione, no favorite of mine, isn't a great game caller, as far as I am concerned. But he never struck me as that much of a homer.

[Brad]

Hey, there's the young, can't miss, Manny Ramirez in LF for the Yanks.

[DAW]

if i were you, brad i would lighten up a little. you like the guy because he broadcasts for the sox. i'm telling you, from the other side of the fence, he's a disgusting homer - i don't really care how much your fan base loves him. if there were another choice, i would be there.

[DAW]

" But he never struck me as that much of a homer."

That would be because you are a SF. I've listened to a lot of games over the past few years on xm - many different team's announcers - and IMHO I think cas is one of the biggest homers. Not because I'm a YF. I just find his game calling unbearable.

[Brad]

you make my argument. He's a Sox guy, and so are his fans. Who cares what a yankee fan thinks about him or his homerism? Seriously, man.

[Mike G]

7-5 Boston take the Lead. Ohlendorf was wild and hit two batters.

[SF]

disgusting homer

See, this isn't right, Andrews. Even as a biased Sox fan, there's just no way this characterization applies to Castiglione. No way at all. And I am not even a fan of his.

[DAW]

". Who cares what a yankee fan thinks about him or his homerism? Seriously, man.
"

Then why not let someone voice a contrary opinion without sarcastic comment then?

[SF]

Andrews:

Just because someone roots for a team doesn't mean that they are incapable of constructive criticism. This is a zero-sum game as far as you are concerned, which I find ridiculously extreme.

Castiglione is the Sox' local announcer, and has been for years. He's also enthusiastic. By that simplistic measure, he's a homer. But enthusiasm and homerism aren't synonymous. And again, having listened to him for years (while not particularly liking him that much), he never, ever struck me as an extreme partisan (like Harrelson, who is just awful), or, as you term him in that way, "disgusting".

[DAW]

SF,
It does apply to Castiglione - for what ever reason, you refuse to admit the possibility.

[Brad]

because your comments are out of context. Don't say a guy sucks when he doesn't. Being a homer does not make him suck, but endears him to his fan base. Regardless of what SF thinks, he does a good job at what he does. Preface your comment with " I'm a huge Yankee fan, and can't stand....". It's no different that me saying Jeter sucks. I wouldn't do it, because I know he doesn't. But, I may make a slanted comment with a preface of my bias. Joe C doesn't suck, but rather, does exactly what he's supposed to, and does it well. We love him for the same reason YF's (most) like Sterling and Waldman - they're homers. Howerver, I would just change the channel before I listened to him, rather than make slanted comments about him as if I were being forced to listen to it.

[SF]

Hey, to you he might sound "disgusting". Totally your right to hear that. But I think most objective listeners (and you are NOT one, at last check, and you're critique of Castig is at least equally as compromised, if not moreso, than ours, seeing as you are predisposed to hate the guy) would probably disagree with the idea that his homerism is "disgusting".

Again, I am a Sox fan with no love for homer announcers of any type, don't really like Castiglione, but will certainly defend him against the charges that you make in the terms you make them. I think you are in an amazingly select minority, calling Joe C. a "disgusting homer". I don't doubt you sincerely think that, but I also think that you're idea of a "disgusting homer" must be very different from mine. The perils of subjectivism, I suppose.

[john]

Ha, really? I've been (struggling to) listen to this guy for years now and he's nothing short of apologetic when the Yankees play terribly. He calls an atrocious game, and he comes off as pompous and unserious all at the same time.

You must be listening to some other John Sterling, SF. Not only does he often criticize them when they're playing badly, he sometimes acts as thought they can't win the game -- even though they often do.

I don't mind when he accurately criticizes them, but to act as though they're a team that can't come back is just dumb. So sometimes he's good, and other times he's an announcer of extremes. But his voice is a lot easier to listen to than those amateur voices the Sox have. They're definitely an acquired taste.

[SF]

Wow, so now Joe Castiglione is an "amateur" as well.

You guys are ridiculous.

[Brad]

those amateur voices the Sox have

Now we're playing linguistic experts? well, I'm not one, but I did stay at a holiday inn last night. I'd say that each is pretty easy to listen to. How about Waldman, is she easy to listen to as well? Is her schrill spine-tingling, glass-splitting cat-in-heat voice easy on the 'ol ear drums? What are we arguing about here? Voice quality? Really?

[SF]

Best game caller around: Gary Cohen. He's the Mets radio announcer. He's very enthusiastic to say the least. In that way, he makes no bones about his "homerism". But he's also honest and knows his baseball, and isn't afraid to call out mistakes. This is a guy who would fail the "you can't tell which team employs him" test, but he's one of the best game-callers anywhere, and by virtue of his honesty the pejorative criticism of "homer" slips right off him.

He's probably my favorite radio man to listen to, bar none.

[john]

SF, the rational voice of objective reason. Ho ho ho.

Take someone who's not a Sox fan and not from New England and have them listen JUST to the quality of the announcers' voices. It's amateur night.

[Brad]

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=xv178RjBh6&isbn=0786714468&itm=1

Somehow, the suckiest announcer in the game, the one with the bad voice and extreme homeristic flaws, made his way into this book. I dunno how someone could have made such a terrible mistake.

[john]

Gary Cohen is too slick. And I like the Mets.

SF will probably disagree, but Ralph Kiner and Tim McCarver were a great combination. Their "professional" Mets colleagues weren't half as good.

[Brad]

okay, things have gotten stupid. Later guys.

[SF]

Kiner was pretty solid - sadly his Bells Palsy slowed him down near the end of his game-calling days. And McCarver was far better years ago, before he became consumed with his own knowledge and gained an inability to shut the f*ck up. Still, he's better than most.

Castig's voice is a bit shrill (I don't know how many times I have to repeat that I am not a big fan) for my tastes. His style is a bit uneven for me. But that's a long way from his being an "amateur", which is a completely baseless charge as far as I am concerned.

[SF]

Oh, and just in case we don't get the chance to do this again for a long while:

SCOREBOARD!

[Andrew]

I enjoy the guys on YES (NOT Kay, he's not even a 'baseball guy'), but Jim Kaat was amazing. Bobby Murcer, Al Leiter, and perhaps now Joe Girardi, among others, make really good announcers, for me anyway. I loved getting the pitching angle (and the subtle exasperations with Kay) from guys like Kaat and Leiter.

The postseason could be made so much better if they just had team's announcers call the games, not fricking Joe Buck and Tim McCarver. Ugh.

And guys, face it, all announcers are going to be homers for the teams they announce for. What would you rather them do, be like a Red Sox fan and find flaws where there aren't? Just stick to your own guys and you'll be happy.

"think most objective listeners... would probably disagree with the idea that his homerism is "disgusting"
" I am a Sox fan with no love for homer announcers of any type,"

So, you're either contradicting yourself within a single post, or you're not an objective listener.

Many team's announcers are enthusiastic toward their teams. I have no problem with that, and there are many that I really enjoy listening to. Joe C, seems much more single minded in his views than most, and his passive aggressive comments are off putting. There's a difference between giving your audience what they expect to hear as far as loyalty goes, and actively rooting for the team. Say what youwant about Sterling's game calling - I think his eyesight is so bad he can't see much of what's going on - but with his pompous air I think he stays clear of being a homer who just roots for his employer.

[DAW]

me

[SF]

his passive aggressive comments are off putting

Honestly, I have no idea what this even means.

And really, if you can't make a distinction between my not liking homer announcers in general but taking offense with your description of Castiglione as "disgusting" then I don't think there's anything to discuss at this point.

[DAW]

"SCOREBOARD!"

Yeah, you showed us - you beat 4 of our regulars, damn. Homer!

[SF]

What, Marge?

[DAW]

"Honestly, I have no idea what this even means."

That comes as no huge surprise.

[SF]

Seriously, man, what does it mean? Can you substantiate with an example of Castig's passive agressiveness? You can't throw a line like that out there willy-nilly without backup. I want to know what you are talking about.

[DAW]

" your description of Castiglione as "disgusting" "

Once again, you try to shift the argument in your attempt to win the point.

[john]

SF, I realized I may be confusing Gary Cohen with Gary Thorne. My bad. Gary Thorne is one of the reasons I stopped listening to the Mets when I was stuck in the car and the Yanks weren't on. He and a too-old Bob Murphy were a terrible combination.

As for what's his name the Sox announcer, I'm talking *just* about his voice: as the old saying goes, it's a voice made for print. You're right when you say it's shrill.

Up until the mid-1960s, American tv and radio had a lot of folksy announcers like Ed Sullivan, Lawrence Welk and Cousin Brucie. Local sports still has a lot of these guys, who neither have a player's knowledge nor a broadcaster's voice. If you grow up with them they can be comforting, but that doesn't actually mean they're good. The Scooter was a good example: I grew up with him, and I loved him. If you didn't grow up with him and didn't like the Yankees, he could sound like an idiot. To me and millions of others, he was Yankee baseball.

Most of you are too young to have heard McCarver and Kiner when they were a great team, but they were. Later on Kiner seems to have gotten very tired and just hung on for the money.

Baseball, hockey and basketball have low standards for announcers. Who was that terrible guy Yankee radio used just a couple of years ago?

BTW, Suzyn Waldman has a bad voice, but she overcomes it.

[SF]

I am not trying to "win" anything. I dispute your idea that Castiglione is a "disgusting homer".

[DAW]

" Can you substantiate with an example of Castig's passive agressiveness?"

It's the small digs he makes at the yanks, no matter who the sox are playing. If you want exact quotes, I'll make notes this season and get back to you. Again, I listen to a lot of sox games over the course of the season; it's the cumulative effect of dig after dig.

[DAW]

"I'm not trying to "win" anything."

Please...

[SF]

Kiner has Bells Palsy, for the record. This makes his voice slurred at times.

Thorne I am not a fan of. I agree - way too aware of his own voice.

Boston in the 70s and 80s was blessed with great voices and total characters. Ken Coleman called Sox games on the radio, a total old-school professional. Ned Martin did TV - another smooth, calm operator. Bob Wilson, probably one of the best descriptors of hockey in the history of the game, called Bruins games on the radio (he was maybe the smoothest, best announcer I have heard call any sport, ever) along with John Bucyk, and Johnny Most (the opposite of Wilson, a total blind partisan but a howl for Cs fans) called Celtics games. Glory days. Today, not so much.

[DAW]

john, do you mean charlie steiner?

[SF]

"I'm not trying to "win" anything."

Please...

It's not a zero-sum game, Andrews.

Don't project.

[SF]

Steiner was awful, and that had nothing to do with his working for the Yankees.

[DAW]

I've been in plenty of arguments with you, my friend - I'm not projecting.

[john]

Charlie Steiner. Can we all agree he was terrible?

He came across as a superficial, shallow product of the Connecticut School of Broadcasting.

[Nick-YF]

"It's the small digs he makes at the yanks, no matter who the sox are playing. If you want exact quotes, I'll make notes this season and get back to you. Again, I listen to a lot of sox games over the course of the season; it's the cumulative effect of dig after dig."

I have to agree with Andrews' quote here. I lived in Boston for the fall of 2004--not a good time for a Yanks fan, and I thought Castiglione definitely took unneccessary shots at the Yanks, but maybe I was sensitive being a Yanks fan in enemy territory.

[DAW]

maybe so, but steiner has a great voice. so does sterling, like him or not.

I used to love listening to the mets' murphy. He was hilarious.

[john]

I just Googled him and saw he's been big on ESPN (I rarely watch ESPN). So maybe we won't agree, but my wife and I couldn't stand him. Before he was announcer, we would watch the YES network and listen to WABC. But Steiner put an end to that.

[SF]

The thing is, Andrews, I have said nothing controversial or extreme here. I disagree with your charge that Castiglione is a "disgusting homer", and that's about it. That's an extreme statement about an announcer who just isn't that extreme.

And I don't think he's an "amateur", like John says, though I do agree that his voice is not exactly Scully-esque. So if that's what John means, which it seems like it is, then I am with him on that, in those limited terms.

But otherwise, this isn't an all-or-nothing kind of argument like you make it out to be.

[SF]

maybe so, but steiner has a great voice. so does sterling, like him or not.

Sterling has an AMAZING voice. Which is the worst part. It's like he has completely shirked the "with great power comes great responsibility" thing. Uncle Ben would be pissed. He's got a classic, all-time great voice, but he's so aware of it, and so aware of his position as "the voice of the Yankees" that it gets the best of him. I don't think he's insulting to the Sox, I don't think he's "passive agressive", I just think he calls a really bad ballgame with an overly affected manner.

Great voice though. Too bad that's not the whole story.

[john]

OKAY, last comment tonight -- I had MLB.com on in the background tonight and thought there was a certain amount of pandering to anti-Yankee sentiment. I didn't pay attention to which announcer or announcers made the comments. I'd call it pandering rather than passive-aggressive.

This isn't personal -- "I hate Harrelson" or "I can't stand Casti__" (I don't even know his name) -- when I'm in New England in the summer I'll turn on the radio and listen and at some point I'll think, "You have to be a real Sox fan to like these guys." On the other hand, I associate them with New England and know that a lot of my New England friends consider them part of the whole Nation experience.

[SF]

I have to agree with Andrews' quote here. I lived in Boston for the fall of 2004--not a good time for a Yanks fan, and I thought Castiglione definitely took unneccessary shots at the Yanks, but maybe I was sensitive being a Yanks fan in enemy territory.

Not sure this is the best timeframe for you to be making the judgment. That would be like me basing my opinion of Sterling on the last few innings of Game 7 of the ALCS in 2003. You have to do the Olympics "eliminate the high and low scores" thing and use the rest of the sample, I think.

[DAW]

" That's an extreme statement about an announcer who just isn't that extreme."

That's a matter of opinion. Sorry you find mine extreme, but I can't stand him as a broadcaster, for the reasons I've tried to lay out.

Again, I'm no real fan of Sterling, but I think his poor eyesight is a real problem as far as his game calling goes.

[Triskaidekaphobia]

What I learned from the show today....

Apparently there was a Speed type bomb attached to Andrews radio and if he were to turn off the radio or switch the station KABOOM! Somewhere Charlie Steiner's ears are ringing, Brad hearts Suzyn Waldman and nobody likes Michael Kay.

Time for me to check out Manny's new doo rag and soak up some Florida rays!

[DAW]

the "rest of the sample" is no different, SF. Trust me on this one.

[DAW]

Trisk, you can catch rays at 11pm? Some weird daylight savings time malfunction?
Some people have all the luck...

[Triskaidekaphobia]

Via Yes Network....I feel the warmth through the TV!

[DAW]

Ah, that's right. The game's on now. Think I'll catch a few rays myself.