Sweep! Yanks Take Would-Be InstaClassic, 5-0

A brilliant game on a brilliant afternoon today, marred only by a little late-inning weirdness, and perhaps a certain lack of serious drama at the end. It looked like we might get it. Chien-Ming Wang took a no-no into the 7th, only to have it broken up by a Mike Lowell single following on the heels of a Jeter error. (Derek was 4-for-4, so no complaints about his day). Wang was nearly matched by Curt Schilling, who went 7 innings (and looked like he might have gone further), allowing but two solo dingers to Robi Cano. The Yanks broke it open with 3 in thee 8th off Hideki Okajima, 2 runs coming off a throwing error by the other Captain, Jason Varitek, looking to nab Alex on the back end of a double-steal. There was some controversy in the 7th, when Youk was called out for running outside the baseline (Tito ejected), and a bit more in the 9th, when Joba was bounced for tossing at Youk's head. Edwar Ramirez finished up. The Yanks are now 5 back of the Sox, and .5 up in the WC pending tonight's M's game. A fun day of baseball, especially for YFs. Talk amongst yourselves.

Comments

[Yankee Fan In Boston]

i never woulda thunk it.

[the shantee]

I am at work and had to watch on gamecast. Did Joba's throws look like they were intentionally trying to hit Youkilis? How did the crowd react to these pitches as well as his ejection?? Need the details...

[Nick-YF]

it was weird. They were identical pitches that up and in over his head. I think they weren't intentional. If they were, then Joba is kind of crazy. The crowd gave him a big cheer as he walked off. Meanwhile, apparently Beckett was cussing and running his mouth at him from the dugout when he stayed out there for a bit. There will be a beaning in Fenway.

[Yankee Fan In Boston]

beckett?!? talking trash?!?

on a day when a giambi doppelganger was playing 1B like a spry donald arthur mattingly?!?

these are the end times, friends. repent.

[attackgerbil]

shantee: they were pitches that looked _exactly_ like pitches one would throw when sending a message without exactly trying to hit a guy ... bat head height, same spot; Posada was set up low, then low away on the two pitches. It's remarkable that he lost control in such a controlled fashion.

[MrBlackthorne]

That out-of-baseline call involving Youk was really the nail in the coffin for the game... You don't get much more rally-killing than that. While I despise that thought, I think the umps got the call right, which is great. Weird, weird, game, though.

[Mark (YF)]

I find it a little hard to believe Torre would send Joba out there to throw at someone and potentially risk losing him for 5 games when the team is fighting for its October life (sweep notwithstanding).

[John - YF (Trisk)]

If you watch closely after both pitche Joba is trying to dry his fingers. It's a pretty humid day here, so that could have been a factor. Just don't see any reasoning for Joba to hit Youk in that situation. Unfortunately we will never know the truth.

Great win, what a series.

[jonw (YF)]

It is hard to see any rationale for intentionally trying to hit Yuk there. Perhaps Clements has impressed on the kid the need to establish control of the plate and he may not have a lot of experience throwing inside. But even the Yuk homer last night would not justify trying to hit him, nor woudl the baseline play. Now, if Yuk said something after the play, we don't know but it doesn't make sense.

YF Mark is dead-on. Yanks have 5 more games ot make up and need the Hut to be there. I can imagine Torre telling him NOT to do anything stupid.

[jonw (YF)]

OH, and I almost forgot. How many lossess does it take to qualify as another Massacre. If the sox drop the next three to the yanks, do we call it the two-city Massacre?

Would it be september without a red sox swoon?

[YF]

Yeah. Well. The kids today!

[the shantee]

ALthough this may be an unfavorable opinion, good for Joba. Showing some toughness and grit by throwing at someone like that. Could only mean good things in the long run...

[attackgerbil]

jonw - agree completely. It's non-sensical that Joba would throw _at_ anyone at this point in his career. It's just a bizarre situation. Really, a game highlighted by several bizzarities, to coin a phrase.

[LocklandSF]

You know, it is possible the kid did it on his own, without Torre "sending" him out there to do it.

I don't think he was trying to hit him, but it did look like he was sending a message. I just wish I knew what the message was in response too.

[Nick -YF]

does he get an automatic suspension?

[LocklandSF]

Another theory..

We might just be seeing what happens to Joba when he has to pitch more than one. :-)

[Yankee Fan In Boston]

here we go...

hilarious.

was youk trash talking after the call at third? maybe he said something to someone?

grasping at straws here.

[John - YF (Trisk)]

I think I read Youk's lips and it was something like "Put a bend in your hat you freak" but my lip reading skills are rusty.

[LocklandSF]

Does Joba also leave the tags and stickers on his hat?

[LocklandSF]

On to JD Drew....

MLB should have a Lemon Law. He's clearly defrauding the Red Sox.

[Westboro - YF]

"On to JD Drew....
MLB should have a Lemon Law. He's clearly defrauding the Red Sox."

Thats what they get for their shady off-season back alley meetings with Boris.

[LocklandSF]

Can we sue him for fraud?

[YF]

I know the times is a partial owner of the sox, but to me it's just outrageous that after a yankee sweep they have a sports photo with a picture at the top of nyt.com and it's this:

"Tyson Gay celebrated his victory in the men's 200-meter final on the sixth day of the I.A.F.F. World Athletics Championships in Osaka, Japan."

Really? that's nice for him. but this is ny. no one here gives a crap about the men's 200 meter in osaka. report the fucking news that matters if you expect to retain your dignity. F-.

Youk was pretty chirpy after that call - odd, when he must have known that he ran WAY out of the baseline. I can't see why that would be a reason to throw at him, though.

Torre was angrier in his postgame interview than I've ever seen him - about Joba's ejection. Based on what I saw, I would bet my house that he didn't send the kid out there to send a message...

[YF]

Aha. Wang now at the top of the page. Where he belongs. ABOUT TIME.

[Rich SF]

Is this 1978 all over again? Sure feels like it?

If it's not 1978, then it's 2005 all over again!

Dammit...I hate Nancy Drew, Manny is dogging it, and the best pitchers we have get lit up by the Spankies! dammit dammit dammit.

One day we're all happy writing haikus about Daiske and the next day we can see the crow coming into our mouths...make it stop!

[pale blue eyes]

Don't think this is 1978, don't think Manny's dogging it.

But Drew needs to be benched once the September reinforcements come up. Ellsbury's gotta be better than what Drew showed us recently.

[LocklandSF]

Rich, go easy buddy, they were all hard fought games, nothing to be ashamed of.

Also, Manny is NOT dogging it.

[jp sf]

The Sox are still 5 games up. They still have the hammer...they control their own destiny. This is a blip that will be long forgotten come October when they're still playing ball and the Yanks are at home watching on their plasmas.

The Yanks got some home cooking in this series...which they sorely needed. But from what I saw, this is not a playoff caliber team. They have their regulars doing their thing, but everyone else is mediocre. The only question remains is will Kennedy be the next Yankees pitcher to give up 4 hrs in a row? Seriously, I'm more worried about playing the Angels in the playoffs than I am about the Yankees.

[DAW]

me. I sign in, and typekey constantly signs me out. wtf?

"I know the times is a partial owner of the sox, but to me it's just outrageous that after a yankee sweep they have a sports photo with a picture at the top of nyt.com and it's this..."

Hilarious!

Got another laugher on a personal level - last night after the sound check before my gig, I went across the street to catch a couple innings at a bar with a bunch of big screen TVs called "The Riviera". The moment I stepped through the door, I thought I had fallen through the looking glass - a sea of red jerseys and caps with a "B" on them, in the heart of NYC! There was ONE other yf in the whole joint.

Went back later to watch Mo finish it, and escaped with only one sf flipping me off when I yelled: "How about those Yankees" in response to his " F the Yankees" He was so loaded it took a full 15 seconds to get his finger into position...

[Brad]

I agree. Wangs numbers post All-Star break really have put him on top of the page.

[Nick -YF]

Maybe it's the 16 wins and his great performance today, Brad. But no credit where credit is due I guess.

[LocklandSF]

"the Yanks are at home watching on their plasmas."

Nobody buys plasma any more.

[Nick -YF]

jp, not sure if we watched the same series. The Yanks, after all, just swept the best team in baseball--they held them to very few runs in the process. They might not be a play-off team, but what exactly in the series tells you otherwise?

[Brad]

YF - how big of news is it for the Yankees to sweep to keep it respectable? I mean, a sweep to take the lead, or narrow the lead to a few is one thing, but a sweep to get back within five is not really that big of a deal man. In fact, most of us thought it would probably happen. The Yankees were wounded dogs, trying to stay alive, and that's always more dangerous than the dogs who have recently eaten, and are in good shape.
Just saying, man. It's only big news to YF and SF's.

[Jackie (SF)]

Woe.

Sorry folks, that's all I got right now.

On the bright side, at least I've determined that the problem in the first two games wasn't my posting here, so I am free to join the game threads once more. :)

[Brad]

Nick, he pitched great today.

[Nick -YF]

well, Brad, the NY Times does have "New York" in its title.

[Brad]

I disagree, Lockland.
All three of these games (with MAYBE the exception of Pettitte) were crap. No hitting of pitchers who have been getting pounded, making the yankee's pitching look much better than they've looked against much worse teams.
I put all of these losses on the Red Sox, and while NY did what it had to, they definitely caught Boston sleeping on them this weekend. Kudos to them for that.

[Brad]

Ok, Nick. You're splitting hairs-P

[Brad]

I'm out.
Headed to Boston.
Big-time Bachelor weekend time!
Later, guys.
Have a nice weekend to all.

[LocklandSF]

What ever. Again, so they swept us, we get to beat up on sub 500 teams with a 5 game lead.

I'm just not worried, so I'm not upset.

[FenSheaParkway]

Andrews - If you want to check out a good Sox scene on the East side, visit Professor Thom's. I go there and I swear it's like I died and went to Kenmore.

[DAW]

"will be long forgotten come October when they're still playing ball and the Yanks are at home watching on their plasmas"

Do you really feel confident enough to tempt fate like that?

"from what I saw, this is not a playoff caliber team."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

What's your seeing-eye dog's name??

[KurticusMaximus]

@jp sf: I dunno how mediocre they looked. Granted, there's room for improvement, and the Yanks are still 5 games out, but it's hard to look mediocre while sweeping the best record in baseball.

If anything, I'd be more worried about the Sox. The pitching was about equal on both sides, so this came down to the line-ups, and the Sox just didn't get anything done. The Yanks left way, way too many runners stranded, but at least they had runners.

Anyway, this is just the beginning of the last stretch. Great sweep for YFs, not really a big deal for SFs.

Re: Joba- I think it was just preemptive action, given all the history and Francona's ejection. There is just no way Joba wanted to buzz him like that- if it was intentional, Jorge would have set up inside. Two balls got away from him, and the ump erred on the side of caution. A ridiculous call, but understandable given the history between the teams.

All in all, YFs should be glad for the call. Didn't hurt the game, and it means Joba should be available Saturday.

[Brad]

Or, from what the rest of the world saw for three months, are the Yankees a playoff caliber team?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

[DAW]

FSP, a sf I was talking to there last night told me about that place - also another one on the east side that I can't recall the name of - I, of course, thanked him for the warning :)

[Jackie (SF)]

Here are some things I am telling myself so I don't give in to the urge to panic:

- Five game lead. Obviously.

- If Manny had been in the lineup, we would likely have taken the second game, at least

- Holy fuck, Schill *can* pitch against the Yankees after all. He had a terrific outing, low pitch count, good control... I think that's gotten lost in all the other ridiculousness today.

- FIVE GAMES. If you'd told me on April 1 that we'd be 5 up on August 30...

Aw, fuck it guys, it's not working. I'm freaking out.

[DAW]

Hey Brad, the yanks have the best recoed in mlb since late June. No doubt they are a playoff team. Say what you want about the sox "sleeping" this series, but we hit your pitching. Period. If we win the WC, which I think we will, I'm pulling for a series with the sox. From what I've seen, I like the matchup.

[Jackie (SF)]

As a YF, I'd be really concerned about Joba's control if he was aiming for low and outside on those two pitches that ended up over Youk's helmet. There's no way it couldn't have been intentional... I have no idea why he'd be throwing at Youk, but it CANNOT have been accidental.

[DAW]

recoed = record

[KurticusMaximus]

@Jackie: Well, I can't say I can get myself too concerned over two pitches. I do think it was accidental, because I think Joba is too smart to mess with that stuff in the ninth inning. Even Rocket wouldn't pull a stunt like that.

So two pitches that get away from him? That just means he gets some extra coaching tomorrow to fix whatever might have happened.

[AndrewYF]

How could it not have been accidental? 5-0 lead, kid has a great chance for his first career save, and he throws at Kevin Youkilis intentionally? Yeah. Because that makes all the sense in the world.

Dice-K *actually* hit A-Rod, and he's supposed to have pretty good control of his pitches. No one's whining about that, and that's one of the differences between the Red Sox and the Yankees. I can't tell you how many times A-Rod and Jeter and Posada actually get hit and don't even peep about it.

He threw it way over Youk's head. It was two pitches that were out of control. Even Eckersley, a huge Sox homer, who tried to argue that Youkilis and Drew were really both safe (when both of them were clearly out on inspection), said that they weren't intentional. When you throw that hard, even a slight change (say, humidity and non-dryness of the hands) can put your pitches anywhere.

It's a lot more clear it wasn't intentional than that it was.

[Jackie (SF)]

I dunno, Kurt. Top 9th up by 5 in the last game of a series is the perfect place to go headhunting, since there's no chance of retaliation (until the next series, at least).

It's bizzare, but I can't imagine that a pitcher of his vaunted talent and pinpoint control slipped up by that much, let alone twice in a row. Just like I don't believe Roger thought the bat fragment he chucked at Piazza was the baseball. :P

[AndrewYF]

How could it not have been accidental? 5-0 lead, kid has a great chance for his first career save, and he throws at Kevin Youkilis intentionally? Yeah. Because that makes all the sense in the world.

Dice-K *actually* hit A-Rod, and he's supposed to have pretty good control of his pitches. No one's whining about that, and that's one of the differences between the Red Sox and the Yankees. I can't tell you how many times A-Rod and Jeter and Posada actually get hit and don't even peep about it.

He threw it way over Youk's head. It was two pitches that were out of control. Even Eckersley, a huge Sox homer, who tried to argue that Youkilis and Drew were really both safe (when both of them were clearly out on inspection), said that they weren't intentional. When you throw that hard, even a slight change (say, humidity and non-dryness of the hands) can put your pitches anywhere.

It's a lot more clear it wasn't intentional than that it was.

[AndrewYF]

Sorry for the doublepost. Typepad timed out and I stupidly refreshed.

[rob]

Learned quite a few things the last few days:

(1) Yanks really wanted this series.
(2) JD Drew is a scrub. Watching the game on Gamecast today I called most of Rally Killer's AB's.
(3) A bullpen does you no good when the offense takes multiple days off.

On that, good job to the Yanks, you were hungry and went out and played that way. You played the btter series.

[Jackie (SF)]

Andrew - I should have been clearer; I wasn't saying he was trying to actually hit Youk, because I don't think he was. I think it was more of a message pitch... at least that is how it seemed to me. But maybe Joba just does have control issues - I'm happy with that explanation!

And yeah, I don't know why he'd be trying to send a message either. Maybe Youk was bitching about Joba's strike zone on Tuesday and he was trying to communicate his displeasure? The bitching seems like something Youk would do.

[KurticusMaximus]

@Jackie: I dunno, I seem to recall a recent acquisition on the Red Sox side who also has some supposedly vaunted talent, only to blow a couple saves in a row.

Joba's what, 21? Missing a couple pitches isn't all that surprising.

And maybe he was trying to send a message, but I really doubt he was trying to hit him.

[dknyc]

Its strange to me to hear the Sox and their fans whining about a brushback, after the Sox have been using Yankee batters for target practice the past few seasons. Many Sox fans such as Bill Simmons have gone so far as to mock the lack of response on the Yankee side.

[Dave]

I was at the game. My first reaction to the Joba thing was-- retalliation for Oki throwing at Andy Phillips an inning before (that's what it looked like from right field).

The second pitch surprised me. Unless Joba is going to the Roger Clemens School of Pitching. Lesson One: Two of yours for one of mine.

That, or he just lost total control.

[AndrewYF]

Oh my god, Rotoworld are the biggest bunch of anti-Yankee homers, check out their 'comments' on player news:

"Wang only got into serious trouble in the seventh, when a Derek Jeter throwing error was followed by Mike Lowell's single, breaking up the no-hit bid. J.D. Drew followed with a grounder to third. Alex Rodriguez tried the tag-and-throw-to-first double play, but Kevin Youkilis ran around the tag and was initally called safe. After the umpire's huddled, it was ruled that he ran out of the baseline, which he probably did, but only after initially eluding the tag. Instead of second and third with one out, Wang only had to deal with a man on second and two outs, and he struck out Jason Varitek to end the frame."

Oh yes, Wang was given a gift by the umpires, because it was SUCH a borderline call because Youkilis ONLY ran out of the baseline to avoid the tag. Duh - that's why the rule was created! Idiots.

"Between Cano's homers today, Alex Rodriguez's liner over the left-field wall Tuesday and Johnny Damon's 316-foot blast to right on Monday, we wonder how much differently this series would have gone had it been played at Fenway Park. Cano's homers would have been doubles, and A-Rod's might have been a single. Damon's homer would have been a fairly routine fly in any other park."

And if Mike Lowell never played in Fenway he would be slugging .400 because his Green Monster doubles would be routine flyouts. See? I can make completely inconsequential and moronic statements about players I don't necessarily like too! Jesus.

"Chamberlain, in his second inning of work, unleased back-to-back fastballs right at Youkilis' head. Fortunately, Youkilis was able to duck under both. It seems unlikely that either pitch was intentional, but with the outcome of the game not really on the line, ejecting Chamberlain was the smart move. Chamberlain could seriously hurt or even kill someone if he has no idea where his pitches are going."

Yes, because those pitches were right at Youkilis's face, and he only missed getting hit by mere millimeters. Rotoworld's thinking: umpires should always eject pitchers who can throw hard because they can hurt someone if they let a pitch go awry. I really don't think I've ever seen such homerism on a well-known fantasy site before. Absolutely amazing. Also absolutely inconsequential because who actually cares what proven idiots say, but still. How ridiculous.

[YF]

"MLB should have a Lemon Law. He's clearly defrauding the Red Sox." good one lockland.

rich: we had a lot of fun with the haiku contest. it was my idea. if you couldn't find the humor in it, that's sad, but your problem, not mine. but characterizing commenters and the authors here as idiots and morons, besides being idiotically moronic, is absolutely not acceptable. if you want to play in our sandbox, abide by our rules of conduct.

[Lar]

By the way, on that double play, I'm wondering why people don't just.. stop more often. Like, completely stop so that at least they'll have to waste time tagging you. At least it wouldn't have been a double play.. or at least it wouldn't have been an easy double play..

[Paul SF]

You're as dumb as the idiot who put the Haiku idea online and the morons who wrote them. You look like an arrogant ass.

This from the same guy who earlier in the thread came up with this line of brilliance: If it's not 1978, then it's 2005 all over again!

That doesn't make Sox fans look much brighter, buddy. FWIW, I feel very little concern about the team right now. The Sox' pitching did as well as I would have expected against the Yanks' bats. It's the offense, which has been a concern all year, that hurt us -- particularly when Manny goes down with an injury.

Lots of games against Baltimore and Tampa left. Not terribly concerned, yet.

Also, what YF said. When you have added very little constructive to the discussion, it does you no good to start insulting the people here who actually do so on a regular basis.

[Rob_in_CT]

I didn't see the Joba ejection, so I've no idea whether he was throwing at Youklis (either "message pitch" or trying to hit him). None.

I'd like to think he wasn't, because I'm a Yankee fan and I don't like headhunting (if you wanna send a message, drill him in the ribs or ass, don't do something that could kill the guy if you miss by an inch).

What really matters, of course, is what Bob Watson thinks.

[Rob_in_CT]

Holy crap! That's the first post I've been able to make on this site all year. I guess it's just from work that I can't... :)

Good series from the Yanks, obviously, but the Sox fans who are still calm are right. 5 games is still a big lead considering how many games remain, and the schedule (missing Bedard is nice too, innit?). Me, I'm happy about the free-fall the Mariners are in. Hopefully the Yanks will kick 'em to the curb when they come to the stadium next week.

[Paul SF]

Would it be september without a red sox swoon?

Here are the Sox' September records and the games difference between their August records in the "modern era":

2006: 13-14 (+4)
2005: 17-12 (-2)
2004: 18-10 (-3)
2003: 17-9 (+3.5)
Total: 65-49 (+2.5)

That's an average record of 16-11, or a winning percentage of .593. If the Sox "swoon" like that this year, they'll finish with 97 wins, and the Yankees will have to go 23-5 just to tie them.

Let's go, September swoon!

[Paul SF]

So true, Rob. Bedard's injury is great news for the Sox, though really a damn shame. He's a great pitcher, and Baltimore needs something to cheer about.

Reports indicate Bob Watson missed the incident in question. He was too busy studying the number of times Terry Francona spit on the dugout floor to make sure it was within MLB regulations.

[YF]

rob: if you're having trouble commenting, please shoot us an email. we like to have you around these parts!

[Sam-YF]

I do think its funny that some SFs on this site are trying to take credit away from the yankees for this series sweep. I cant really see how anybody could argue that the yanks didnt earn these 3 games. All were close and they executed best when it mattered. The Sox are still a very good team but the fact that the last 3 series have resulted in a 7-2 record in the yankees favor is not just an anomaly. Anyone who doesnt think its possible that the yankees can beat the sox in a 7 game series is deluding themselves.

[YF]

Wow. No Bedard. That's a nice break! Oh well. Goes around comes around.

[Rob_in_CT]

YF - thanks.

What do I need to put in the email? Basically, if I try to post from work, either the "post a comment" box doesn't even show up, or if it does and I try to submit a post, it chews on it for a minute and then fails.

[Rob_in_CT]

I don't think pondering a best of 7 series with the Sox makes much sense unless you believe the Yanks can deal with a best of 5 game series with the Angels... which frankly concerns me much more. Ah, Angels, how do I hate thee? Let me count the ways...

[SF]

Wow. No Bedard. That's a nice break! Oh well. Goes around comes around.

Right, don't the Yanks miss both Shields and Kazmir this weekend?

[SF]

Didn't see any of the games, but not sure why any Sox fan would want to make excuses for the sweep - what are the excuses? Umps stunk? (lame). Yankees aren't really that good? (uh, we just lost three in a row to them, what kind of comment is that about OUR team?). The only thing to say (something I have been saying for many weeks now, to heavy criticism from both sides) is that the Sox are flawed. Yes, team with a top record in baseball in a tough division in the tougher league is flawed, visibly, however that sounds. And the Yankees, flawed too, may just be a better team at the moment, particularly if our two best offensive players aren't healthy. Who wins in a 7 game series, if it gets to that point? I have no clue at all.

But all credit due at the moment to the Yankees. And thank GOODNESS for April and May.

[JS]

Guys, all Rich did was point out that it was dumb for that guy to compare Ian Kennedy to Chase Wright....

You know I've been called many names on here such as an "ass" -- simply for posting Theo Epstein's "Uber team" quote from 2006 after the Sawx got Gagne. It was a moment for irony, like it or not. But did anyone defend me against the Guy who called me an "ass"? Did anyone say anything to him? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

And I agree that the Haiku contest was absolutely stupid.

[IronHorse (yf)]

Clearly the most important position in baseball is the starting picher.

If you look at the number of starters the Yankees have had to use this year, including the number of first-time starts that some have had to make (add one to each category with Kennedy on Saturday), I am impressed that they are where they are.

Having set a record for using 10 different starting pitchers in the first 30 days of the season, they have continued to audition guys out of necessity.

You've got the starting 5 at the start of season:
Wang, Pettitte, Mussina, Pavano, Igawa

Then add 8:
Clemens, Hughes, Clippard, Wright, Karstens, DeSalvo, Rasner, and Kennedy

Every year every team has to deal with injuries and the starting rotation shuffles. But what the Yankees have managed this year - in my view - would have sunk most other teams in the league.

Those SFs who are overly pleased and gloating about the 5 game lead and talking about the Yankees not being a playoff caliber team (noticeably none of the regular SFs on this site) are the kinds of fans who won't be convinced, or won't admit to being convinced, of anything otherwise right up to the Yankees either overtaking them in the AL East or beating them in the ALCS so nothing said here now will change their bias-based views.

But right now, I feel good about the Yankees' chances in any 5 or 7 game series in October with the most daunting obstacle to everyone clearly being the Angels (not the Red Sox, Yankees, or anyone else), so I certainly want them to get there and, depending largely on what Kennedy/Mussina can muster together in September, believe they will.

These are two pretty even teams right now and good arguments can be made for either being better than the other. But the record, I don't believe, is so telling of how good they are now, because while the RS built it in part by playing consistently well all year, it was also fed by the Yankees' record-breaking forced pitcher-juggling. And this Saturday proves that they are still mid-juggle.

[YF]

JS: That's not all he did. If that's all he did, we'd have had no problem, as i agree with the point. And I don't really care if he (or you) thought the haiku contest was stupid. If that's what you think, fine. I'm not censoring you. But calling other posters morons or idiots is not acceptable.

We don't have time to police every one of the thousands of comments on this site each week. Sometimes things slip through. Sometimes we think things are tounge in cheek and let them go. We use our judgment. We trust folks here to police themselves. Enough said.

[SF]

JS:

It's clear from doing a little forensic work on our site that you and "rich sf" are one and the same. Spewing obscenities is against our rules, not to mention your utter lack of integrity in posing as two different writers and playing that up as some sort of legitimate debate.

If you continue either practice you will no longer be welcome at this site.

[dc]

JS, get used to it...there is somewhat of a double standard around here for verbal abuse...unfortunately some of the regulars engage, while mostly it's a troll or 2...i've complained about it a number of times, and the standard disclaimer [admittedly somewhat valid] is that it is tough to police, so the site is somewhat self-policing...my best advice is to ignore the stuff...the bummer is when it's one of the regulars who is in the habit of using personal insults and name-calling...
hey, did you guys delete some of rich's comments?...i only see one from 5:20 that wasn't particularly objectionable, even if a bit rude...if you did, i don't care really, it just explains why some of the posting is out of context for me...

[dc]

ok, i just read your post and yf's post sf...i guess i did miss out on something here...i get it now...

[bloodyank78]

Sox Fans; We'll trade you Jim Dean for rich SF AKA JS, straight up with a cash incentive from our end. Douchebaggery is alive and well on both sides of this rivalry, yesiree Bob.

[SF]

Rich/JS is a YF, BY. No deal!

[dc]

back to the topic, is it too obvious for me to state that nobody's won nuthin' yet?...if there's one thing yf's have learned in recent years, helped along by gentle persuasion from our sf buddies is that it's not enough to get the wild card or even win a division if you don't do anything with it...i suppose i'd rather get in the playoffs than not, but as i've said before, what's the point if they have a poor showing and earn another early exit...the yanks won a 3 game series = big deal...true it was against our #1 rival so it gives us a little more satisfaction, but we still have a big hill to climb, and the wc is far from a sure thing...in the meantime, the sox need to have some concern about injuries: specifically manny, and not to forget ortiz is banged up...and their pitching struggled a bit more than i thought they would [true, it was only 3 games, and could be a blip, but you never know]...

[SF]

dc:

The Yanks are averaging a boatload of runs per game, and they were held below that average. Forgetting the tack-ons late yesterday, the Sox didn't do horrendously (granted, not really well, but not badly). This series exposed the offense more than anything else. Dice-K, Beckett, and Schill all kept the games close enough, but the offense spit the bit. Kudos to the Yanks staff. The Sox' pitching wasn't the issue, at least not primarily.

[IronHorse (yf)]

DC, I don't think any YFs here have acted like the post-season is a lock so not sure what you may be reacting to. And I don't think the satisfaction of sweeping Boston was just about beating the Yanks' "#1 rival" - if Boston was in last place in the division that might be the only source of joy for YFs, but with Boston having come into this series needing probably only one win to push the Yankees into an all-but insurmountable hole, and not being able to get it, this series has kept the faint glimmer of an ALEast division crown alive for at least a while longer.

P.S. NYTimes reports Roger has an inflamed elbow - he says he doesn't think it is a big deal and should be able to pitch his next start - sure hope so.

[YF]

I pretty much agree with SF. These teams are evenly matched. The Sox pitching was excellent this series; if a couple of balls landed a few feet left or right of where they did, or with a different call here or there, they may have won a couple of the games. The Sox offense is, obviously, a lot less dangerous minus Manny, and they played 2.5 games without him. So I guess i reject the "spit the bit" formulation. Playing with a man down, they had trouble breaking through against excellent pitching. Sometimes things just don't go your way. Also, yeah, Drew was really awful.

[Jim in CT SF]

Props to the Yankees who brought their 'A' game under difficult circumstances.
But no worries here, the Sox are still an excellent team and are going far and deep. The roster expansion and the schedule will only help. Manny will heal.
& I'm still betting that Drew wakes up before the end of the season.

[Sam]

The way I see it, the Sox could get swept by the Yanks in this series and the one in Sept and still have a 2 game lead, and that knowledge probably meant they relaxed somewhat this week. I think that, had the division lead been 1 game, the series would have been very different.

I don't think there's any reason for SFs to worry. Us YFs, however, can take some comfort from the fact that yesterday was the first day since Apr 10 that ended with us in a playoff spot - it's been a long ride!

Now, to push on ahead of Seattle and get ready for what promises to be a traumatic ALDS vs the Angels...

And Jim - I don't think Drew will ever wake up.

[Lar]

At least I was wrong on Drew - he wasn't injury prone after all!

[Ric]

"P.S. NYTimes reports Roger has an inflamed elbow - he says he doesn't think it is a big deal and should be able to pitch his next start - sure hope so."

thats not all thats inflamed if those ben-gay stories are true...

[IronHorse (yf)]

Manny's absence was of course huge, though I am not sure that or a RS team relaxing on the cushion of its lead can fully account for a .146 team batting average in this 3-game series. The Yankees pitchers to-a-man (other than Farnsworth) were nothing less than exceptional. And good thing too, as the RS pitchers all performed pretty well too. I'm frankly not so sure how different it would have been if the lead was smaller given those performances. I do think they are evenly matched however and that anotehr 3 game series with the same pitching matchups could just as easily go the other way.

[Paul SF]

anotehr 3 game series with the same pitching matchups could just as easily go the other way.

I agree, IH. I can't think of a single break that went the Sox' way in the series. Not complaining. That's just the way it went. The Sox have caught plenty of breaks earlier this year, and they caught plenty to win four straight in 2004. (Now that I think about it, Varitek's home run was two inches away from being an out in the first game this week. That's all I can think of though).

That's baseball. Luck plays a pretty large role if the teams themselves are nearly equal.

[DAW]

"The Sox pitching was excellent this series"

I don't agree. Beckett's GS was 37 - lower than the 43 he scored in his other 2 starts this year against the yanks; matsuzaka gave up 5 runs, with a GS of 40. We hit Okajima. The exception was Schilling, who pitched a good game (GS 60), but with his lack of velocity, the long ball is going to remain a real threat.

Fair, maybe. Excellent - no way.

On another note, doesn't the WC team automatically play the team who ends the season with the best record?

[dc]

"...The exception was Schilling..."
no, actually schilling was hit very hard too, just right at fielders...in wang's case they call the knack of having the ball find a fielder "lucky"...in schill's case i guess it's "grit" or "guts", or something...[not to start the "luck debate" again], or the "gritty debate" either...have we had a "guts" debate?...

correction:

"who" ends the season... should read: "that" ends the season...

-andrews