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Sunday, November 18, 2007

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That was fascinating, Paul, thank you! Just out of curiosity, what's happening to the rest of the'04 bunch? Are they still considered prospects in good standing?

Would be really cool to see a similar review of the Yankees' drafts in the recent years...would be interesting (embarrassing?) to see how many turned out to be busts...

That's the one thing I'd like to do, but with no time to do it, YM -- see how the Sox' success/failure at the draft over the last 10 years compares to other teams.

Maybe some year...

I'll see if I can't do a Yankee version over the next week or so, though. I'd be curious, as well.

The big difference between Duquette and Theo:

Theo rushes players to the majors. Hansen and Alvarez are good examples, but even Buchholz and Papelbon came up very soon.

Now, before any Sox fan gets too excited by that statement, I don't think it's a bad thing. You quickly see if the player has what it takes. But under normal advancement conditions (especially circa 1999), neither Alvarez nor Hansen are major leaguers yet. Papelbon would have been in 2006. And Buchholz would have been ready next year.

But, the point remains, Theo has done a heck of a job in the draft, but still not as good as Cashman/Oppenheimer :)

Is youkilis the new overrated infielder in the rivalry?

http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/023986.php

This data says that like Jeter he gets most of what gets to him but his range is average at best.

Good find, Sam! It would have been better if you made it a statement:

Youkilis is the new overrated infielder in the rivalry. It's like having Matt Stairs at 1B but without the power.

Meanwhile, Mientkiewicz was robbed of the GG!

I think PMR is my new defensive metric of choice. Lots of fun stuff here:

http://www.baseballmusings.com/

Abreu is much better than typically given credit for. As is Matsui. Both well above average.

Manny is as bad as typically given credit for. Drew is below average.

Lowell deserves credit as a very good defensive 3B. But there's not much difference with A-Rod, and both are well above average.

Cano is among the best in the game. Pedroia is about average.

Crisp is tops at CF. Damon actually comes out ahead of Melky, but PMR doesn't take arms into account.

Jeter is very bad - almost Manny-esque. Lugo is better than average.

Overall, Yankees were #1 in defense. Sox were #2.

Let's keep to the topic, gentlemen...

great work, Paul. The 2005 haul is quite impressive. I just visited the BR draft page for the Yanks and the last 7 years are rather sad. Since 2004, however, they seem to be heading in the right direction.

Sorry Paul. I just found it interesting and since Youk was mentioned above...

This is great work. I think alot of credit also goes to the way in which the sox revamped their entire baseball operations when Theo became GM. Im not sure weather he or Lucchino (or both) deserves the credit for this but bringing in guys like Bill James made a big difference.

One thing i found remarkable about the yankees draft picks over the last decade was how few of them ended up on other teams. This at least challenges the dogma that yankees have traded away much of their youth in the past years. This could also simply be a product of them not drafting any major league players over this time period. Also, most of the yankee youth is not represented in the draft as they sign much of it from abroad. This remains an excellent way for them to flex their financial muscles.

Also, drafting Prior in 1998, talk about the one that got away...

The problem with looking at the draft alone is that it leaves out the other half of the Yankee strategy pre-2004 - the international signings.

2000: Wang
2001: Cano, Melky

Pre-2004, I think they legitimately thought they'd always be drafting too low to get anyone of importance. So they shifted their resources.

Now with the sandwich picks, you see them shifting to both (Tabata, Montero, Joba, Hughes, Kennedy).

The draft does leave out the international component. On the Sox side, Hanley Ramirez, for example, was never drafted...

What coulda been: Would Prior be battling the injuries he has now if he'd played for the Yankees, i.e. not for Dusty Baker?

i was thinking the same Paul. sigh.

Paul - Great article. Any chance at all you want to change the tenses around Hancock to reflect his post-mortem status?

Extremely small nit to a great piece.

Sam- I'm not sure the data "says" that parallel you draw between Jetes and Youks.

Youks = 101.44. Ever so slightly above average.
Jetes = 91.20. Not so slightly below average.

Nothing against Dave Pinto and his PMR: It's great work and pretty reliable. But like most advanced defensive metrics, there are outliers and people who "fool" the system. Check out where Wily Mo Pena ranks as a LF, and tell me if you think that makes any sense at all. If nothing else, it tells you that PMR gives an incomplete picture of defense. I'm not sure Pinto would argue that point.

Also, looking at a combination of defensive stats, it's really ol' Casey Kotchman who has the argument against Youks = GG.

quo i largely agree with your points but I dont think paul wanted us to turn this thread into a discussion about this topic, so I wont continue. Its a long off-season Im sure we will have another chance to discuss it all...

Especially since I have plans to run down the Sox' and Yanks' placement in those rankings anyway... :-P

Great post, Paul. Thanks for this.

Very insightful. The Sox draft class of '05 is absolutely outstanding.

As a preview, the Yankee drafts from 1997 through 2002 were absolutely, absolutely horrendous. '95 brought Mike Lowell, and '96 brought Nick Johnson. The star of the '97 class was Randy Choate. '98 had Mark Prior, who chose college, and Drew Henson. '99 had famed AAAA players Andy Phillips and Kevin Thompson. '00 had Matt Smith (he of the Abreu trade) and Sean Henn (awful). That's 4 straight years of absolutely nothing. '01 and '02 were not much better, although they include players whose stories are not yet done: '01 had Shelley and Chase Wright (Sox fans surely remember him). '02 had absolutely no one.

That's 6 years of getting next to nothing from the draft. Thankfully, '03 through '07 are looking much, much better.

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