Another Day In Tradesville

So here's what we know this morning. Or what we think we know. Or what others think they know. Or what others wish they think they know. Or... *take the pills, Tiger*

• The Red Sox are in discussions with Florida and Pittsburgh on a potential megadeal that would leave Manny Ramirez in Florida, one or two prospects in either or both Florida and Pittsburgh and bring at least Jason Bay to Boston.
• Those talks have been categorized as everything from not likely to succeed (Gordon Edes) to all but complete (Palm Beach Post).
• This morning, they're being seen as having a roughly 50-50 chance of completion, according to Jayson Stark. The deal would be Bay to Boston, Jeremy Hermida and prospects to Pittsburgh, Manny and John Grabow to Florida (this is a bit of a change).
• A lot of people think the Pirates are holding this up, insisting on either or both hot-shot Marlins prospects Ryan Tucker and Mike Stanton. Florida is insistent that Stanton is off the table, but Tucker might be in play.
• The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette confirms Grabow to the Marlins, not the Red Sox, and says the Pirates "are open-minded on both fronts, the Boston-Florida one as well as Tampa, and there is no deal, tentative or otherwise, in either direction."
• Heyman and Rosenthal haven't updated yet -- probably because they're working on the other big deal of the morning: Ken Griffey Jr. to the White Sox.
• The Boston Globe has been getting its butt handed to them for the last 24 hours. Maybe Edes' head isn't in the game on this, his final day with the Globe, but within hours of posting this slightly condescending "no story here" blog entry, he was forced to react to the breaking reports out of every other media market with interest in this story. The Herald hasn't really been much better. The usual Sox sources seem to be pretty buttoned down on this one. Read into it what you will.

So, with all that sorted out, I think you're caught up (unless something else has happened since I started this post). Feel free to comment here this morning on all trade rumors and possibilities...

Comments

[SF]

How far is Bowden from an innings limit? Could he, a la Joba, move to the bullpen for the dog days, then transition back to the rotation next Spring Training?

[SF]

I wonder if we'll ever find out how/why the 3-way deal fell through. If it is true that the prospects were agreed and it came down to a $2mill differential, I would have to say Florida is ridiculous and even greedier than greedy.

That takes some self-restraint to not tie it to the Sox being cheapskates!

[SF]

(that was a joke, IH, by the way, don't want it taken the wrong way)

[Brad]

I would have to say Florida is ridiculous and even greedier than greedy.

Or, I would say that the Red Sox are stupid for not meeting the demands.

Let me get something straight. The team was willing to eat TEN MILLION DOLLARS to have Edgar Renteria NOT PLAY for the Red Sox, in addition to the FORTY MILLION THEY GAVE LUGO, but a two million dollar snag is the reason they failed to move the biggest cancer in Boston right now?

Am I the only one who sees the flaws in this way of thinking? Two million bucks is the reason the Red Sox essentially laid out their own failing destiny for this year? We all know Manny is going to lay down, and I promise, there will be discussions between the Red Sox and the Player's union over Manny's crap in the coming weeks.

UN.
FREAKING.
BELIEVABLE.

[Brad]

I would have to say Florida is ridiculous and even greedier than greedy.

Or, I would say that the Red Sox are stupid for not meeting the demands.

Let me get something straight. The team was willing to eat TEN MILLION DOLLARS to have Edgar Renteria NOT PLAY for the Red Sox, in addition to the FORTY MILLION THEY GAVE LUGO, but a two million dollar snag is the reason they failed to move the biggest cancer in Boston right now?

Am I the only one who sees the flaws in this way of thinking? Two million bucks is the reason the Red Sox essentially laid out their own failing destiny for this year? We all know Manny is going to lay down, and I promise, there will be discussions between the Red Sox and the Player's union over Manny's crap in the coming weeks.

UN.
FREAKING.
BELIEVABLE.

[Brad]

sorry for the double.

[Brad]

No self-restraint needed, SF.

If that's the case, then that's EXACTLY what they are.

Yeah, it makes no sense, and yeah they were getting robbed. But, that's still better than TB getting him, and us getting stuck with the tumor in LF.

[stuck working]

Ha ha, Globe's site seems to have crashed from overload.

[Brad]

I have the absolute worst thoughts going through my head right now.

I've never really wished a serious injury on a player until thirty seconds ago, but I'll keep it in my head.

[Yankee Fan In Boston]

rosenthal says bay is going to boston again.

ha! this is hilarious.

[LocklandSF]

So... Ah....

Go Manny!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[Yankee Fan In Boston]

here's that link:
http://tinyurl.com/64y5uc

[stuck working]

Hey Brad, in the absence of anything like reliable information about what went down, your attacks on the Sox brass are more than a little over-the-top. We all know you hate Manny more than even many of the YFs around here, but I'd wait for a little more info before passing judgment, you know?

[Paul SF]

Gammons is saying the Rays think Bay is headed to Boston.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

[Brad]

Bay deal not done yet?

Marlins could be playing this exactly right.

Any sliver of hope that something may get done is enough for me to maintain sanity.

[Yankee Fan In Boston]

awww... let it out, brad. i'd be fuming, too.

today is all about baseless speculation anyway.

[Brad]

Stuck -
Will do.
But trust me, if it doesn't happen, I'm letting loose.

I too feel as if I'm taking crazy pills right now.

[SF]

But trust me, if it doesn't happen, I'm letting loose.

Ha, this ISN'T you letting loose?!

[Sam-YF]

My head just exploded!!!

[Brad]

I suppose, SF.

I'm just not happy with the Red Sox right now.

Anyone know how it works now that the deadline has passed? Are their special rules for things that in the process?

[Yankee Fan In Boston]

wait.

dead once more.

http://tinyurl.com/67dplz

ridiculous.

[Yankee Fan In Boston]

this is more fun than tracking daisuke's plane!

[Brad]

I need to take a walk.

[IronHorse (yf)]

Brad, far be it from me to defend the Sox FO, but with all the rumor-mongering going around, we realyl ahve no clue if this realyl came down to a $2mill difference. Let's remember that the only news source we have - or at least that I saw - saying that Pittsburgh agreed to the prospects for this deal, was the Pittsburgh paper, so it may have been held up on the prospects as well.

And I don't bet Manny lies down. Really. He might, he might not. The only predictable thing to me about Manny is that he is unrepdictable. I'd love it if he lies down, and I can't wait for the interview clips from Epstein, Manny, etc. tonight, but if I was forced to bet the ranch on Manny tanking or raking for the rest of this year, I'd probably pick the latter. Like I said earlier, he is a goldfish - 5-second memory at best.

[Paul SF]

So Rosenthal says: Bay-to-Rays is dead, but so is the three-way with Pitt and Fla.

Okay. I don't know anymore what that means.

[IronHorse (yf)]

WFAN just notes that Bay is hitting .216 with RISP and .190 vs. lefties. Hmmmm.

[Sam-YF]

Players involved in trades after today must clear waivers.

[IronHorse (yf)]

Announcement:

Yankees traded Alberto Gonzalez for minor league pitcher for the Nationals Johnny Nunez

I liked Gonzalez - gotta look up Nunez.

[Sam-YF]

WFAN just reported manny to the dodgers

[Brad]

A trade has been made!!

[Paul SF]

Edes on NESN says Manny has been traded, and it's before the commissioner...

[IronHorse (yf)]

Nunez not looking that great. Not sure what the reason for this move is.

Any corroboration for the Manny-Dodgers news?

[IronHorse (yf)]

If they got Kemp and didn't give up a lot more than Manny, I'd be impressed. And pissed - even if I am happy to see Manny leave.

[LocklandSF]

"Breaking sports news 4:20 PM Red Sox trade Manny Ramírez The Globe's Gordon Edes just reported that a deal has gone down with Manny Ramirez. More details to come."

[Sam-YF]

if they get anyone other than Kemp, im very very happy.

[SF]

NOMAR'S COMING BACK!!!

(just kidding. maybe. Oy.)

[IronHorse (yf)]

Sam - that's the other side of the coin, and I agree completely.

FAn joking that if the Dodgers could just get Pedro, they could put the 2003 Sox back together - and under Torre's management.

[Sam-YF]

so basically Joe Torre is managing the red sox in LA now?

Bizarre....

[Lar]

Who is Johnny Nunez?

[Paul SF]

Cafardo and Edes saying they hear it's Jason Bay coming to Boston after all.

[Brad]

Manny to LA
Either to Pitt
Bay to Boston

That's what I think before it comes down.

[Paul SF]

But MLB.com and ESPN.com say Bay is going to the Dodgers. Confusion reigns! Chaos!

[Brad]

That's what they're saying on EEI right now.

[Brad]

Dear Theo,

If this is true, I'm sorry I bugged out.

Signed,

Brad.

[IronHorse (yf)]

NESN says Bay is involved in the Dodgers deal now.

[Yankee Fan In Boston]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/07/31/manny.sweepstakes/?eref=T1

dodgers.

[Sam-YF]

sox got bay

[IronHorse (yf)]

Nunez (It's "Jhonny" by the way) is a minor leaguer with a 5+ ERA in the minors, though in a brief 8 IP in AA Harrisburg he has a sub-1.00 ERA. Doesn't seem like much.

[SF]

If Theo was able to do a last-minute pivot from the Marlins (and some reported intractability) to the Dodgers and get this deal done, does the make him facile and smart, or desperate? Or both?

[Yankee Fan In Boston]

here's a smaller url:
http://tinyurl.com/56opdh

[IronHorse (yf)]

I'm liking that .216 RISP and .190 vs. lefties now, notwithstanding the fact that Bay is a solid player.

[Paul SF]

Hayman says it's a three-way in which Manny goes to LA and Bay coms to Boston. If that's true, count me very happy. It's not Kemp, but it's the next best thing available.

[SF]

Ha, every single Boston site - the Globe, SoSH, etc. is overloaded and unavailable. Ours works, though!

[SF]

I'm liking that .216 RISP and .190 vs. lefties now, notwithstanding the fact that Bay is a solid player.

This trade is good for John McCain.

[Brad]

Pirates get 4 players from LA
Manny to dodgers
Bay to Boston

PER EEI.

[Lar]

4 prospects eh? I guess Boston is lucky LA is desperate or something..

[John - YF]

Goodbye Manny. It's been fun.

[Atheose]

Just got out of a poorly-timed meeting. What happened? I heard Bay didn't really go to Tampa.

[IronHorse (yf)]

This also makes me believe that it was indeed greedy Florida that submarined the previous 3-way unless Pittsurgh somehow got prospects from LA that they weren't able to get from FLA. I hope they feel foolish now. They had Manny for next to nothing as they try to hold onto 1st place in the division plus an assured 1st-round pick next year.

[Brad]

It makes him smart...and desperate.

[Atheose]

So 3-way deal involving Dodgers? Wow.

I can't believe the Manny era in Boston is over.

[IronHorse (yf)]

4 from LA and NONE from the Sox? Wow, LA is desperate.

[John - YF]

Somewhere in CT, Brad just cracked open a nice bottle of Champagne!

[Brad]

Manny Ramirez is no longer a member of the Boston Red Sox.

GOODBYE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!yayyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Welcome, Jason.

[John - YF]

It's just Brad being Brad.

[Yankee Fan In Boston]

i kind of feel like celebrating, too.

[Brad]

Somewhere in CT, Brad just cracked open a nice bottle of Champagne!

Not yet, John. Right now I'm failing at a feeble attempt to work today. But I promise, tonight I'll be celebrating - along with adding a few tshirts to my collection of rags that I use to wash my Harley with.

[Brad]

I like it John.

[FenSheaParkway]

The Herald and the Fenway t-shirt guys must be frantically trying to make the best Back Bay puns right now. I'm too overwhelmed to try.

[Yankee Fan In Boston]

sox gave hansen and moss as well as manny.

http://tinyurl.com/5lf3om

[stuck working]

Looks like Brandon Moss and Craig Hansen are shipping out, too...

[Atheose]

I suddenly feel like crying.

[Brad]

Hanson is in this deal as well. As is Laroche (spelling).

[Lar]

Sox only getting Bay? Because Manny + Moss + Hansen sounds a bit much..

[stuck working]

I guess I'm excited for next year. I kinda feel like rooting for the Rays to win the division this year, because I really don't think it's gonna be the Sox...

[John - YF]

In other news WFAN is reporting that the Yankees continued the "Trading Things That Drive Yankee Fans Nuts" trend by sending Freddy (of Freddy Sez fame), the YMCA grounds crew and the Kate Smith rendition of GBA to the San Fransisco Giants for a PTBNL and Barry Bonds old recliner.

More details to come.

[Brad]

It's better than a year of Berman saying "Jason Tampa Bay".

[Devine]

Forgive me, Brad, IH, but I think I may actually end up crying about this.

Moss was a little too much, but besides that, it makes sense.

Lord, I'll miss his swing.

[Paul SF]

Sox better be getting at last one other player back if they're giving up Moss AND Hansen...

[Brad]

The pirates cleaned up on this trade.

It is a lot, Larry, but their hand was being forced to the point that they were looking for seventy cents on the dollar in a week that they should have been able to concentrate on other things, but make no mistake, I would have given up more. :)

[rootbeerfloat]

wow. Manny's really gone? I just can't quite process this

[FenSheaParkway]

Manny's going to have fun in the left field of Dodger Stadium.

"Where'd all this grass come from?"

[Atheose]

It's better than a year of Berman saying "Jason Tampa Bay".

Oh god I didn't even consider that. This is a blessing.

[Brad]

Stuck -

I think you couldn't be more wrong. I think this move makes the Red Sox a better team, with a lot less stress and a LOT less problems. Yeah, they may lose a few HR, but Bay is a good damn player, and a BETTER all around player this year all things considered.
I think this solves all the offensive problems, and at least we know that Bay is going to play when we need him to.

[Lar]

Brad - I'm a big fan of Bay, but Manny, rental or not, should be worth more than this, however you discount it. Hey, as a YF, I guess I'm happy about this..

[Brad]

FSP

That's freaking funny.

[Yankee Fan In Boston]

sox are paying all of manny's contract, too. if the marlins were really offering to pay a good portion, i wonder which deal would have been better. (assuming that every word we read today wasn't misinformation.)

[IronHorse (yf)]

Well now that we see the Boston prospects, I'm not so down on LA. At all. Nice haul. Tough move for Boston, but it looked like they had little choice.

Loved the additional Yankee trade news John. I heard Suzyn Waldman and Ronan Tynan are part of the deal if the commissioner signs off...

[John - YF]

Yankees make one more trade:

INF Alberto Gonzalez to the Nationals for RHP Jhonny Nunez.

[SF]

Hmm, I wonder if Jason Bay has some sort of magic powder that will fix the Varitek, Ellsbury, Crisp, Delcarmen, Lopez, Timlin, and Okajima problems?

This may lighten the atmosphere in the clubhouse, and the net offense/defense changes may end up being a wash, but the Sox are still flawed. I think this deal will more smartly be measured in the offseason when the Sox figure out what to do with their roster, not primarily over the course of the rest of this season. They still have some major issues. But hey, at least the players won't have to answer questions about Manny (starting in couple of days, of course).

[John - YF]

IH, I would say throw them in. They can also take the guy who plays the saxaphone and guitar by the parking garage as well...Since we are cleaning house.

[stuck working]

Brad: your vision is really being distorted by your Manny-hate if you think this deal "solves all the offensive problems" this team has this year. Given everything, this still might make sense, but it likely doesn't represent an offensive *upgrade* in the near-term. And, as much as Hansen worried me whenever he came in, this further weakens the Sox bullpen, which is already the weakest point.

Gah. Indigestion.

[Lar]

What's Bay's LORP? (Leadership Over Replacement Player)

[Paul SF]

I guess I like this trade. Would have liked it better if it was Hansen, but Moss was pretty clearly never going to get his chance in Boston anyway.

The Sox essentially upgraded their position in left field for a relief pitcher who was not looking like anything worth keeping and a fourth outfielder who had promise but also wasn't going to ever get his chance here. I think that's good.

Bay is younger than Manny, faster than Manny, a much better defender than Manny and is already giving equal or slightly more production than Manny. If the Sox had to overpay to get somebody, I'd rather it be Bay.

[SF]

Let's move Manny discussion up top to YF's thread.

[Brad]

I agree, even with SF, who likes to chime in with some kind of holier than thou comment at whatever I say.
It won't fix the problems, but I don't think it makes them worse at all. I think it makes them better. Maybe I'm wrong. Of course there are problems, and I would have liked to not get rid of Hansen just yet, but whatever.
We know where I stand here. I still think the Red Sox are going to be better because of this move, if not this year, definitely next when they are able to re-invest that money into pitching.
Regardless, I think they're better. If they had kept Manny, things would have been more of the same for weeks to come, and that was something that this team could ill-afford right now.
I don't know, maybe you're right - maybe I am being led around by my hatred for all things Manny.

[Brad]

What Paul said.

[FenSheaParkway]

Let's not overlook the true impetus for this deal: Pittsburgh's unquenchable desire to trade for every LaRoche currently playing Baseball.

[Paul SF]

There is the little problem of the fact that the Red Sox did nothing to address their two glaring holes: Catcher and Bullpen. I think Lowrie at short and Ellsbury at center are weaknesses you live with because for the Sox to be successful they are going to need to hit. But Varitek being a black hole and the bullpen being unreliable are big problems, and Bay will do nothing to solve them.

I do think Bay makes the Red Sox a better team, though, both from a stats perspective, and from a "not going to be a huge distraction to his manager and teammates" perspective.

[Brad]

I think deals will get done for a reliever, and I think they're just going to live with Varitek. I think they feel that any offense he gives them is a bonue (to what I don't know) but I've heard many people say this over and over again.
You're exactly right, Paul.
I think they'll be adding Bowden very soon with hopes that he'll be able to help them.