There's More To The Game Than Trades: Halos-Sox Gamer IX

Much to the relief of us all, they still actually have to play the games. Beckett's on the mound against Joe Saunders and the Angels with newly-acquired first baseman Mark Teixeira hitting in front of Vlad at Fenway. Comment away...

Angels
C. Figgins 3b .269
M. Izturis ss .264
M. Teixeira 1b .000
V. Guerrero dh .284
T. Hunter cf .280
G. Anderson lf .270
H. Kendrick 2b .332
G. Matthews Jr. rf .234
J. Mathis c .220

Boston
D. Pedroia 2b .315
K. Youkilis 1b .310
D. Ortiz dh .261
M. Ramirez lf .301
M. Lowell 3b .280
J.D. Drew rf .287
J. Lowrie ss .284
J. Varitek c .215
C. Crisp cf .248

Comments

[stuck working]

So much for Beckett throwing a revenge no-hitter. I'd still be satisfied with a revenge CG 2-hitter, though.

[attackgerbil]

I like my rumors juicy and blood-red rare. mmmm.

oops.. link fixed.

[IronHorse (yf)]

I wish I could watch this pitching duel.

[I'mBillMcNeal]

Gerb, that link goes nowhere.

[I'mBillMcNeal]

I really don't want a pitching duel. We need to win this game.

[Atheose]

Well I just got home and we're losing 3-0 already, so it's not my fault.

[Atheose]

Holy shit Farnsworth for Pudge Rodriguez! How is this not up yet?

[dc]

"...I really don't want a pitching duel...."

i don't think it will be, bill...angels have already scored 3, and i think the sox are due...might be one of those 10-9 deals...

[dc]

did nesn mention anything about manny not running to first on his line drive?...angel's coverage made sure they showed it...ugh...sorry guys...not cool

[John - YF]

Manny to Florida, Hermida to Pittsburgh, Bay to Boston? Is that what everyone else is hearing?

[Atheose]

Wait what John?

[Atheose]

Teixiera not very impressive with a Halo thus far.

[stuck working]

Wow, Tek worked a walk. Now, if Coco can keep out of the DP, Pedroia and Youk get a chance to get the Sox in the game.

[Devine]

Down-ward spi-ral *clap clap, clapclapclap*
Down-ward spi-ral *clap clap, clapclapclap

And yet I remain unfazed. Perhaps because so many life changes are coming up for me that the Red Sox have their noise turned down a little in my head.

NICE, COCO! 3-2 Angels.

[stuck working]

My comment about Coco is 100% responsible for his HR. Awesome.

[Devine]

Youk doubles with 1 down. Cool, cool, making it interesting.

[Atheose]

GOD BLESS COCO!

Sorry I'm late with that.

[stuck working]

Incidentally, if that deal goes through, I hope that there are prospects coming with Bay because he certainly doesn't straight-up replace Manny in terms of value (even as a rental), especially if the Sox are picking up the full tab. But maybe I'm being greedy.

[SF]

All sorts of rumors flying. Will Carroll reported a deal just about done, but he also said that about Santana and the Sox. I believe nothing I read at this point until the trades are made official.

[Atheose]

Stuck, I'm assuming that if Bay is coming to Boston there will be an extension involved.

I keep giggling about the thought of Manny on the Marlins.

[Atheose]

I'm just glad we're getting Bay and not Hermida. As long as we sign Bay to a long-term deal I approve of this trade.

I would have rather gotten Hanley Ramirez though.

[SF]

Manny to the Marlins reminds me of Piazza to the Marlins. He was there for about two days before he bought a ticket to the Mets. I don't see Manny sticking there, I see this as a parlay if it happens.

[Atheose]

Fucking Garrett Anderson bends one around the pole.

[Devine]

Gone. Back to a 3-run lead for the Angels. Hi dee ho, we stink.

[Atheose]

I wonder if the players are hearing whiffs of rumors down in the dugout.

[Lar]

Bay is not Manny (no one is) but is probably a damn big bat though. If that's all you're giving up, I think it's good (if you _must_ get rid of Manny..)

[Lar]

Well, it's 6-2, so if they pull Manny it might not be because of a trade..

[Atheose]

Bay is no Manny... but he's pretty damn close. I'm very happy if we get him and extend him.

[stuck working]

Watch, I complain about Bay then the Sox end up with Josh Willingham...

Man, if we're not really concentrating on the game at this point, I imagine that something like this distraction has seeped into the dugout, too.

[Devine]

Angels kicking the snot out of us. Pitching rarely around. Offense mostly quiet. Horrible skid, this. Oh well, we got swept by the Angels on the road to start this slide. Perhaps getting swept by them at home will somehow end it. Seems a million years since we swept the worst team in the league. For me, all the losing has made bearing another loss easier, but it still stinks.

There's another hit. Runners, corners, 1 down. 6-2 Angels. Beckett getting pulled.

I'll go watch something else for a bit, I s'pose.

[Lar]

Ath - I wanted to say it in that exact wording (damn close) but figured it was probably presumptuous from a YF.. heh.

[Devine]

I would just like to say if Manny has to go (and he's really taken it to the front office now with that "The Red Sox don't deserve a player like me" quote), Bay would the one of the closest things to acceptable I can imagine.

[Atheose]

Heh, no worries Lar. It is true though; Bay is OPS+'ing 132, 150, 138, 93, and 137. His 2007 year is interesting, but an outlier. Manny's stats will stay around 140 or drop even more, not to mention his high price. Bay is a young, long-term option.

By the way, kudos to Cashman. He's really found a lot of cheap, minor ways to improve his team greatly.

[Atheose]

Sorry, to clarify those are Bay's OPS+ numbers over the last 5 years.

Wow we finally get out of that inning.

[Atheose]

The more I think about it the more I want this trade to happen, especially after Manny's pre-game comments.

[stuck working]

Uh...woulda been nice to get, like, a baserunner there, maybe.

[SF]

If the Sox trade Jed Lowrie with Manny I will not be happy, which is a rumor now hanging out there.

[stuck working]

Ath- me personally, I just don't like to see Mommy and Daddy fighting, y'know? I wish they could get along, even if divorce would be best (don't ask me to fit Bay into this metaphor). Dunno why I'm having this reaction, since I supported the decisions with Nomar, Pedro, D-Lowe, etc.

Of course, it may not happen, anyway.

[SF]

Think about this: if you are Florida or Pittsburgh, would you trade either Hermida or Bay straight up for Manny? No f-ing way. I don't see how this trade goes down without the Sox eating money or sending prospects, just to get one of those guys. It doesn't make sense otherwise.

[Atheose]

(don't ask me to fit Bay into this metaphor).

Bay is obviously mommy's new Canadian boyfriend who is now over at your place all the time.

SF, that is NOT a good thing. Why the hell would we trade Lowrie with Lugo on the DL? We'd need to get a SS back. This doesn't make sense, though the Pirates need a SS/2B badly.

[Atheose]

Hermida is nothing special; lifetime 108 OPS+. Bay is fantastic, but not Hermy.

Though I guess that proves your point--the Pirates would need to be getting more than just Hermida.

[SF]

I think the idea is we take Jack Wilson back. Yay.

Cents on the dollar, is my bet. Unless the Pitt and FLA GMs are seriously brain damaged, always a possibility.

[stuck working]

Ath- well, I was kinda thinking about playing with the Manny/Mommy pun, but then it got complicated about Jason Bay and Daddy, and...well, I thought it best to let the whole matter drop.

[Atheose]

I think the idea is we take Jack Wilson back. Yay.

*vomit*

[Paul SF]

because he certainly doesn't straight-up replace Manny in terms of value

Not a true statement. Bay has more runs created and more win shares than Manny this season -- and he's about equal in more traditional stats...

Anyway, the rumored three-way deal is now being reported as the hot potential trade all over the place. The Sox would eat the rest of Manny's salary, making him appetizing to Florida, the Pirates would get a couple of hot-shot Marlins prospects, and the Sox would get Bay. The Sox apparently are being asked for another prospect to send to Florida, and that's one of the hold-ups... This is what the various reports say, anyway.

[stuck working]

Haven't the Sox given Florida enough of their good prospects in deals past? Can't they do us a solid this time? Heh.

[Atheose]

Wow the Marlins are greedy! Take your free Manny and go please!

[SF]

The "various reports" are probably 75% BS, +/- 25%. That's what I take away from the Santana reports last year.

[Paul SF]

Hermida is nothing special

He's 24, and he OPS+ed 125 as a 23-year-old last year. Also, check his home/road splits and consider the Marlins play in a canyon.

[Atheose]

Sorry Paul, I meant that somewhat relatively: I consider Hermida a player that still has a lot of potential to live up to, whereas Bay already has established himself as a very good player nearing Manny's current value. I personally don't see Hermida OPS+'ing around 140.

[Atheose]

Masterson comes in and does exactly what he's supposed to: induces a groundball DP. When was the last time a member of the bullpen did his job?

[SF]

I stand by my sentiments about the trade deadline, from way back at that famous one in 2004.

http://www.yfsf.org/2004/07/stop_this_mill_.html

[Atheose]

I'm romantically imagining Manny homering here, in his last AB as a Red Sox... like Ted Williams.

[stuck working]

And instead, Manny drops his average under .300. Nice thought, though, Ath.

[Atheose]

Gammons' musings reduce down to the Diamondbacks trading Randy Johnson to themselves for, you guessed it, Randy Johnson.

HAhaha!

[Paul SF]

I just love the trade deadline. I love the madcap theorizing, the what-ifs and coulda-beens. Half the stuff you hear is crap, the other 49 percent is deliberately placed misinformation, but that doesn't make it any less fun.

[stuck working]

Nice to see that the Sox still can't manage to drive in a leadoff double.

[stuck working]

Masterson still working out the kinks, I guess. Good will from inducing that DP evaporating slowly...

[Atheose]

I'm just looking at it from the perspective that Masterson is choosing a blowout like this to get all of the "suck" out of his system

[SF]

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=967

[stuck working]

Ath- any thoughts on what you'd like to see form Lowrie's potential "last at-bat as a Red Sox," should the trade happen in that suggested form?

Oops...too late. I'm going to guess that you didn't have "grounded out to third," though.

[stuck working]

Can't get the page to load, SF. What's it say?

[SF]

Carroll:

There’s still a lot of haggling but my scribbling notes make it look like the structure of the deal is:

Marlins get Manny Ramirez, one prospect (BOS), and cash (likely Ramirez’s remaining salary)
Pirates get Jeremy Hermida and three prospects (two FLO, one BOS)
Red Sox get Jason Bay and John Grabow

I think I'd rather have Hermida, and the Sox' prospects better not be Lowrie or Bowden. I wonder if Lowrie is no longer considered a "prospect", since he's on the ML roster. Anyone know anything about Grabow?

[Sam-YF]

If this trade is true, Im very happy as a yankee fan....
Manny>>Bay plus the sox lose prospects not gain them. This trade kinda feels like they are throwing the towel in on 08

[SF]

All I can think of is "Slapshot" and Denis Lemieux screaming into the phone 'trade me right fucking now'.

[SF]

This trade kinda feels like they are throwing the towel in on 08

You forgot '09.

[SF]

Well, I've seen Grabow's BR page, and frankly - not impressive. At all.

Like I said earlier: cents on the dollar, if this is true.

[SF]

Manny open thread up top.

[Atheose]

I think I'd rather have Hermida, and the Sox' prospects better not be Lowrie or Bowden. I wonder if Lowrie is no longer considered a "prospect", since he's on the ML roster. Anyone know anything about Grabow?

You'd rather have Hermida than Bay? I know the former is 5 years younger than Bay, but still I think Bay is an elite player.