Blogads

Google Ads


« What Does Amalie Know? | Main | Diehards at the Fens »

Sunday, January 04, 2009

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Rickey
Rickey
Rickey

Raines
Blyleven
McGwire
Trammell

Walt Weiss

by the way, Rickey will not get the unanimous vote. BBTF has discovered at least one voter who kept him off his ballot. He didn't give a reason.

So we're on to Greg Maddux in five years to see if the streak of imperfection is broken.

Blyleven
Henderson
Raines (where speed gets underrated - 800 SBs at 85% rate!, fifth all-time behind Henderson, Brock, Hamilton, Cobb. Add those extra bases to his SLG, and he's looking at a career line of .294 .385 .516; a historically underrated player)

By contrast, a .789 Career OPS on the road is not a HOFer. That extra 40 points of puke green "luck" turned a .280 hitter into a .320 hitter. Big difference.

> one voter who kept him off his ballot. He didn't give a reason

Because none exists.

Davidoff nails both cases.
http://blogs.trb.com/sports/baseball/blog/2008/12/my_2009_hall_of_fame_ballot.html


Tim Raines: Here's an instance in which I think first-hand observation does impact my decision. Because I got to see what kind of teammate Raines was. He was great with Joe Torre's Yankees from 1996 through 1998, keeping everyone loose with his sense of humor and talking hitting with the younger players on the team.

Now, that written, I think Raines is a Yes, anyway. His personality just strengthens the argument. Raines played long enough that he produced what felt like two distinct careers _ the first (1981-95) as an underappreciated leadoff hitter, the latter (1996-2002) as a very productive part-time player.

Such longevity produced 390 win shares, a statistic created by Bill James in which 400 win shares merits "absolute enshrinement" into the Hall, as this linked story (http://padres.scout.com/a.z?s=315&p=2&c=706769) states. Raines' .385 on-base percentage and extremely high stolen-base percentage (808 stolen bases in 954 attempts, an 85 percent success rate) boost his candidacy, as does his .435 OBP with runners in scoring position.

As for his cocaine habit, that's not a disqualifying factor to me. He wasn't cheating; to the contrary, using coke very likely hurt his game. And while I respect Bob Tufts' opinion, always, I disagree with his assertion that we can make an easy link between cocaine usage and association with gamblers. That's too slippery a slope for my liking. As I've said to Bob, couldn't you say that a player's messy divorce and subsequent alimony payments make him more vulnerable to gamblers?

Jim Rice: Ah, Mr. Rice, the most controversial call of all. My first two years, he was a slam-dunk yes, no questions asked.

But to go back to my original premise of why I flip-flop, I'm not blind to what's out there. I've read the many arguments in favor of and against Mr. Rice's induction. And many of them have stuck with me.

The home-road splits are remarkable. Then I re-read Howard Bryant's superb book about the Red Sox's history of racism, "Shut Out," and thought, "True, Rice benefited from playing at Fenway Park. But it was no gift to be playing in Boston in his time period." I e-mailed this thought to Howard, and he admitted he had never regarded Rice's HOF candidacy through that prism.

The offensive totals fall short, and his .8539 career OPS ties him for 147th all-time. He trails his era mates Reggie Smith (.855) and Jack Clark (.8543).

At the end, having it pounded into my head that Rice was "feared," I looked at some of his offensive splits (you also can see the home-away disparity here):

Runners in Scoring Position: .371 OBP/.501 SLG//872 OPS. A better OBP than overall, one tick lower in slugging.
2 outs, runners in scoring position: .358/.414/.773. Better OBP by a little, and much worse SLG.
Late and close: .337/.453/.791. So when the "chips were down," as they say, he was 53 points of OPS worse than overall.

When you throw in his poor defense, I went with No. I'm sure he'll get in anyway, in his final year of eligibility, and I won't lose a wink of sleep over it.

Mo Vaughn's most similar by age:

28. David Ortiz (943)
29. David Ortiz (937)
30. Fred McGriff (932)
31. Fred McGriff (940)
32. Jason Giambi (939)
33. Jason Giambi (911)

Somehow I don't see Ortiz aging as well as Giambi or McGriff. Heh.

Let's get this back on track. I'm more interested in who other people would put on a HOF ballot, not in post diarrhea from old enemies pretending to be new friends.

How about it, folks? Who's on your ballot?

Looking forward to the fearsome grin argument in ten years for why Ortiz should be in the Hall. Tee-hee.

I say:

* Bert Blyleven
* Andre Dawson
* Rickey Henderson
* Mark McGwire
* Tim Raines
* Alan Trammell

> Looking forward to the fearsome grin argument in ten years for why Ortiz should be in the Hall

It hear it is a good thing to set goals.

I have read before where votes said they havent voted for someone for the HOF who most certainly deserves to be voted for because they knew he would be elected and they wanted to make sure it wasnt unanimous... They said if Babe Ruth wasn't a unanimous choice, no one should be.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Search YFSF




Sports Gambling

twitter

schedule & standings